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On this “Face the Nation” broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan:
- Jon Finer, deputy Nationwide Safety Adviser
- Michael Herzog, Israeli Ambassador to the U.S.
- Palestinian ambassador to the U.Ok. Husam Zomlot
- Reps. Jason Crow, Democrat of Colorado, and Tony Gonzales, Republican of Texas
- Oksana Markarova, Ukrainian Ambassador to the U.S.
Click on right here to browse full transcripts of “Fac the Nation.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: Good morning. I am Margaret Brennan in Washington.
It has been simply over 4 weeks because the terrorist group Hamas staged its brutal assault on Israel that killed 1,400. Since then, Israel’s response has been highly effective and lethal. The battle has drawn outrage all over the world. And the requires something from a right away cease-fire to a humanitarian pause, which is what the U.S. is asking for, have change into louder.
However as we come on the air, the scenario is bleaker than ever. Secretary of State Antony Blinken is touring within the area and made a shock go to this morning to Ramallah to fulfill with the Palestinian Authority president to speak about the way forward for a Palestinian state.
The U.S. can be persevering with its push to get Hamas to launch hostages, to guard and get help to civilians in Gaza, and to maintain the battle from increasing, all whereas standing with Israel towards terrorism.
Now we have a number of stories from the area this morning, in addition to interviews with three key voices within the diplomatic efforts.
However we start on the bottom in Israel with Charlie D’Agata.
(Start VT)
CHARLIE D’AGATA (voice-over): The secretary of state’s unannounced go to to the West Financial institution is the primary because the battle in Gaza started.
Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas joined different Arab leaders in calling for a right away cease-fire. The secretary of state had come to the area making an attempt to construct help for a humanitarian pause in preventing, roundly rejected by Israel, with no letup within the struggle raging inside Gaza.
This morning, Hamas accused the Israel Protection Forces of killing greater than 40 individuals in an airstrike on the Al-Maghazi refugee camp. The IDF says it is investigating, but it surely seems to be the most recent in a collection of assaults on targets with a heavy civilian presence, from the a number of explosions on the Jabalia and Barij refugee camps to more moderen strikes on a convoy of ambulances outdoors the Al Shifa Hospital, which Israel says focused a Hamas terror cell.
(GIRLS SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
CHARLIE D’AGATA: And schools-turned-U.N.-shelters that in the end offered no security in any respect.
The useless positioned collectively in supply vans performing as makeshift morgues, households unable to let go of family members, their lives and houses torn aside day after day in 4 weeks of heavy bombardment.
The Israeli authorities insists troops are waging battle in accordance with worldwide regulation to keep away from hurt to noncombatants. Hamas well being officers say the demise toll has topped 9,400 individuals. As its forces encircle Gaza Metropolis, the IDF launched new movies displaying troops pushing by means of the ruins of densely packed city neighborhoods, from gun battles on the streets of Gaza to IDF models firing from seashores on the Western strip of the territory.
This mentioned to point out forces blowing up tunnels whereas bulldozers clear routes for extra incoming troopers. With Hamas militants releasing their very own footage mentioned to point out street-to-street preventing, Israel’s protection minister has already warned, this section of the bottom operation might take months.
(Finish VT)
CHARLIE D’AGATA: In an effort to keep away from extra civilian deaths, the Israeli navy says it opened up the freeway main from North to South Gaza for a window 4 hours right this moment, dropping leaflets from plane, once more urging remaining residents to go away for their very own security.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That is our Charlie D’Agata in Tel Aviv.
We flip now to the occupied West Financial institution and Debora Patta’s report on response there from Secretary Blinken’s go to.
(Start VT)
DEBORA PATTA: Palestinian outrage over the hovering demise toll in Gaza is mounting. And right here in Ramallah on the West Financial institution, that anger is directed not solely towards Israel, however towards the USA, which is accused of giving Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu full carte blanche in his battle.
And this crowd right here right this moment is chanting “Blinken, you might have blood in your arms,” the go to by the U.S. secretary of state, Antony Blinken, clearly not welcome in Ramallah.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We flip now to Gaza and CBS Information producer Marwan Al Ghoul.
We warning that a few of the pictures are fairly disturbing. The variety of casualties cited are from Hamas-backed Gaza Well being Ministry.
(Start VT)
MARWAN AL GHOUL: Immediately, on the finish day of the month of the battle, the life turns into increasingly depressing, as Israel maintain bombing Gaza across the hour, which triggered greater than 11,000 deaths and greater than 24,000 accidents.
Half of them or extra are youngsters and ladies. And remember that greater than 1,500 killed are missed beneath destruction nonetheless now. Hospitals virtually collapsed. The well being system in Gaza cannot apply its service to the sufferers, to the deaths and accidents.
That is matter of life. It is collapsed. Individuals did not know the place to go. I can inform that multiple million of the Palestinians in Gaza, I imply, half of the inhabitants, are displaced, with no electrical energy, lack of meals, lack of water, and a number of destruction all over the place.
Immediately morning, I used to be driving in Rafah metropolis, and I noticed hundreds lined and stand on traces ready for bread. A lady instructed me that she had been standing for six hours to get some bread. Won’t be sufficient for her household.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We go now to White Home Principal Deputy Nationwide Safety Adviser Jon Finer.
Good morning to you.
JON FINER (White Home Principal Deputy Nationwide Safety Adviser): Good morning, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, the U.S. has been making an attempt to get roughly 400 U.S. residents out of Gaza. I perceive some have made it out. Are the entire Individuals out, and have been there any casualties?
PRINCIPAL DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JON FINER: Margaret, we consider that there are nonetheless quite a lot of Individuals inside Gaza, however that, over the past a number of days, by means of fairly intensive negotiations with all sides related to this battle, we now have been in a position to get out greater than 300 Individuals, lawful everlasting residents and their relations.
That is clearly a serious precedence, and one which we’ll proceed to work out till each American who desires to go away is in a position to take action.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And the place can we stand with the negotiations to get hostages freed by Hamas?
PRINCIPAL DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JON FINER: These negotiations are happening quietly behind the scenes.
They’ve taken longer than any of us would love. However we proceed to consider that there’s the potential of getting a big variety of these hostages launched. And you have heard each President Biden and the Prime Minister of Israel say that there could possibly be a pause within the preventing to allow that, the best way there was when two American hostages have been launched very early within the battle. And we’ll proceed to work on that as properly.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Has the Israeli authorities agreed to pause for a hostage launch?
PRINCIPAL DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JON FINER: You heard the prime minister of Israel say yesterday that the context during which they’d think about a pause could be associated to a hostage settlement.
We do not, clearly, have but…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
PRINCIPAL DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JON FINER: … a hostage settlement. However, once more, we’re working very exhausting to get one.
And if that have been to happen, simply having the ability to transfer hostages across the battlefield in a approach that’s protected, get them to a gate main outdoors of Gaza would take time. And we might wish to solely be capable of try this safely. So we consider a pause could be applicable in that context.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Understood.
Secretary Blinken has mentioned that what Hamas is doing with utilizing human shields is monstrous. However he additionally mentioned that he shared with the Israeli authorities steps they might and may take to reduce hurt to civilians.
That’s the closest I’ve heard a U.S. official come to you saying the administration is not one hundred pc comfy with what the Israeli navy is doing.
PRINCIPAL DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JON FINER: Margaret, I feel we have mentioned variations of what you heard from Secretary Blinken quite a lot of occasions, together with from the president.
Look, we have been fairly clear that the best way that Hamas conducts this struggle, launching an appalling assault on Israel, after which retreating into the Gaza Strip and primarily concealing themselves amongst a densely populated civilian inhabitants, is unconscionable.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
PRINCIPAL DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JON FINER: On the identical time, whereas that raises the burden on the Israeli navy to conduct this struggle and go after Hamas, it doesn’t diminish their obligation to take action in a approach that distinguishes between civilians and fighters.
And we now have had many direct conversations with the federal government of Israel on that subject, and we’ll proceed to try this.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper, however might and may recommend they don’t seem to be presently.
The U.S. supplies greater than $3 billion a yr in navy help to Israel. Does the U.S. must set circumstances on how that U.S.-paid-for weaponry is used?
PRINCIPAL DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JON FINER: We construct regulation of armed battle assurances any time we switch a safety help to any nation, together with Israel.
And once we see a circumstance, occasions, that – that concern us, we increase these very straight with the federal government of Israel. And, once more, we’ll proceed to try this as this battle transpires.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However, Jon, you realize that your fellow Democrats – I imply, Senator Chris Murphy mentioned he urges Israel to “rethink its strategy and shift to a extra deliberate and proportionate counterterrorism marketing campaign.”
Arab leaders, Arab international ministers mentioned yesterday: “How can we justify that killing 9,000 individuals is self-defense?”
How shut are we to this stopping?
PRINCIPAL DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JON FINER: So, what I might say is, Israel continues to face an unlimited risk from Hamas.
Clearly, we have seen that risk present itself. And never solely does that risk live on, however you proceed to see Hamas say that, if given the chance, they’d conduct a model of what they did on October 7 once more. So the risk has not been eradicated.
On the identical time, as you say, the devastating toll that this has taken on civilians as one deeply considerations us, one which we increase in a really direct approach each publicly, as Secretary Blinken has achieved, as others have achieved, and privately and straight with the federal government of Israel. There are specific obligations that any military has within the context of waging a navy operation like this, they usually’re broadly recognized.
They’re associated to worldwide humanitarian regulation, and we count on them to be adopted.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Jon, Secretary Blinken was in Ramallah within the West Financial institution, as you realize, right this moment assembly with Mahmoud Abbas, and he was reportedly speaking a couple of future for the Palestinian Authority and a few sort of position in Gaza.
How shut are we to the top of the battle, if we’re speaking a couple of future authorities right here? And is the Palestinian Authority actually as much as the duty?
PRINCIPAL DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JON FINER: So, I do not wish to speculate about how shut we’re or are to not the top of the battle.
However what I’ll say – and President Biden has been very clear about this – – is that, every time this battle is over, we can not return to the best way issues have been earlier than October 7, both in Gaza or within the West Financial institution.
We have clearly been very involved throughout this battle, but additionally properly earlier than it, in regards to the rise in violent incidents within the West Financial institution. President Biden has spoken to the position of extremist settlers in that context. That conduct has continued. We have expressed that concern on to the federal government of Israel.
And we give a number of credit score, frankly, to the Palestinian Authority for the work that it has achieved to forestall the West Financial institution from spiraling into better instability, even within the context of what is taking place in Gaza. And within the aftermath of this, the president has mentioned we have to get again to the pressing work of working in the direction of a two-state answer that features each Gaza and the West Financial institution.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However I simply to ensure I am understanding you there.
There are some ultranationalists inside the Israeli authorities who’ve been very clear their positions, one among them saying he was going to chop some funding to the Palestinian Authority, as a result of he did not assume their response was sturdy sufficient to October the seventh.
One other one was additionally handing out weapons to settlers in current days. Have you ever satisfied the Netanyahu authorities to cease that?
PRINCIPAL DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JON FINER: You’ve got heard the president communicate to, once more, critical considerations in regards to the conduct of extremist settlements – settlers, violence that has been perpetrated by them within the West Financial institution that would lead issues to spiral uncontrolled.
So we clearly do not settle for that. We increase these considerations very straight and have achieved so. We consider now shouldn’t be the time to scale back help to the Palestinian Authority, on condition that they’re working in lots of instances alongside Israeli safety forces to attempt to maintain a lid on issues within the West Financial institution, and we consider that they need to each proceed to take action and be supported in that endeavor.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Jon Finer, thanks in your time right this moment.
PRINCIPAL DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JON FINER: Thanks once more, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And Face the Nation can be again in a single minute with Israeli Ambassador to the USA Michael Herzog.
Stick with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We flip now to the Israeli ambassador to the U.S. Michael Herzog.
Ambassador, good to have you ever right here in individual.
MICHAEL HERZOG (Israeli Ambassador to the USA): Thanks.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It is exhausting to consider it has been a month since we final spoke within the wake of the horrific assault in your nation.
I wish to faucet into a few of your expertise right here, as a result of, earlier than you have been a diplomat, you have been within the navy.
The White Home mentioned on Friday, within the coming week, the Israeli navy may have extra of a tactical concentrate on the bottom marketing campaign to filter out particular areas.
Are we shifting into a brand new section of this battle?
AMBASSADOR MICHAEL HERZOG: So, let me clarify what we’re up towards.
Gaza might be the largest terror advanced on the earth. You’ve got tens of hundreds of armed terrorists, tens of hundreds of rockets. We estimate over 500 kilometers of tunnels, terror tunnels, with rockets, all their management, command-and-control construction.
That is what we’re up towards. And we now have to uproot it, as a result of, if we don’t, they may strike many times. And so they’re saying it. They’re saying it publicly. This can be a very difficult navy operation in a densely populated space, and we’re making an attempt to maneuver the inhabitants away from that battle zone.
We’re shifting very slowly, very intentionally, however we’re – our operation, we consider, is efficient and can proceed.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There are nonetheless 400,000 individuals within the North of Gaza, in line with the U.S. risk, space you say you are making an attempt to filter out.
However your navy has encircled Gaza Metropolis. It has killed a number of leaders of Hamas and praised that as success. So at what level do you declare success? And at what level do you cease this aerial marketing campaign and transfer into extra strategic techniques?
AMBASSADOR MICHAEL HERZOG: To start with, most of our marketing campaign proper now’s carried out by floor forces. It is not an air marketing campaign. That was the primary section.
Now, we’re not going to place a timeframe on – on this battle. We didn’t cease – begin this battle. We do not need – we didn’t need this battle. However we can not cease earlier than we dismantle the phobia machine, or else, as I mentioned, it would strike many times.
And we now have to ensure that, when this ends, they’re unable to strike once more the best way they did on October 7. I feel all people in Israel is united round this objective.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Your prime minister mentioned no cease-fire with out the return of hostages.
How shut are we in these negotiations to get hostages freed?
AMBASSADOR MICHAEL HERZOG: We’re making each effort to get hostages launched.
And when individuals – individuals discuss pause within the preventing, we’re all for a pause that will permit for the discharge of hostages. Sadly…
MARGARET BRENNAN: And…
AMBASSADOR MICHAEL HERZOG: Sadly – I’ll clarify the humanitarian subject, however, sadly, we – it isn’t our impression that Hamas is critical about releasing them.
They’re taking part in full time. They’re making an attempt to cease our stress and rearm and regroup themselves. Once we see that they’re critical about it, then we’re all in. No person has to induce us. Many of the kidnapped are Israelis. And our authorities is accountable to the households. So, no one has to induce us on this.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However the White Home has mentioned it was a check case, and a profitable one, to have these two Individuals after which these two Israelis launched.
Why do you assume hostage talks will not be profitable now?
AMBASSADOR MICHAEL HERZOG: As a result of Hamas is taking part in for time and since Hamas is making an attempt to cease our navy efforts.
And I feel, the extra stress we placed on them, the extra probabilities there are that they could conform to launch hostages.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, in line with the U.S., there’s the 400,000 individuals caught in North of Gaza. There are millions of Palestinian civilian casualties. That is in accordance the White Home nationwide safety adviser, 70 or extra U.N. staff, 30 or extra journalists who’ve been killed.
Will your navy change techniques, because the U.S. has requested?
AMBASSADOR MICHAEL HERZOG: We’re making each effort to tell apart between terrorists and civilian inhabitants.
We referred to as on civilian inhabitants to maneuver to the south out of hurt’s approach. And Hamas is doing all the pieces they will to maintain them in hurt’s approach. Many of the inhabitants strikes to the south. And, as we communicate, and we’re pressuring – urgent Hamas within the north, we’re calling individuals to maneuver out of hurt’s approach.
I might be very cautious, very cautious about judging these numbers, as a result of neither you nor I understand how a lot of them are armed terrorists and what number of of them are civilians. I do not know, and you do not know.
Let me inform you on…
(CROSSTALK)
AMBASSADOR MICHAEL HERZOG: Let me inform you greater than that.
On October 7, Hamas attacked us with 3,000 armed terrorists.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
AMBASSADOR MICHAEL HERZOG: We’re nonetheless accumulating the our bodies.
Now we have 1,000 our bodies of armed terrorists on our – do they rely them in – of their numbers, or no? I do not know, and you do not know. So, let’s be very cautious about that, as a result of I do not know what number of of them are terrorists and what number of are – our navy says that…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
AMBASSADOR MICHAEL HERZOG: … it kills quite a few terrorists in – in armed clashes. So let’s be very cautious about that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. Properly, you simply heard that the U.S. – one of many U.S. nationwide safety advisers elevating considerations right here.
When it comes to nationwide safety pursuits, there’s that query of unintended penalties, proper, and that should you – we all know from polling that there are lots of people in Gaza who did not help Hamas. However now, with this marketing campaign this brutal, with these variety of casualties, there’s the danger of radicalization of that inhabitants.
How involved are you about that?
AMBASSADOR MICHAEL HERZOG: We’re. In each battle, there are unintended penalties and there is collateral injury. That is tragic. Each human life is tragic, Palestinian or Israeli. Would not matter.
We act in line with worldwide regulation. We make each distinction that we will make between civilians and terrorists. Now…
MARGARET BRENNAN: However is there an finish level?
AMBASSADOR MICHAEL HERZOG: Now, we name the inhabitants to maneuver to the south to maintain them out of hurt’s approach.
We – earlier than we did airstrikes, we name particular households, buildings, requested them to go away. And Hamas is intentionally retaining them. And in a part of our clashes in Gaza, they despatched like 100 civilians to face our forces. That is the best way they function. That is tragic. That is tragic, however we can not permit Hamas immunity simply because they disguise behind civilians. We wish to separate between the 2 and strike the terrorists.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Ambassador, there’s much more to speak to you about.
Sadly, I’ve to go away it there for right this moment. However I hope that we’ll have you ever again to proceed overlaying this.
AMBASSADOR MICHAEL HERZOG: Thanks very a lot.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We can be proper again with extra Face the Nation.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: The battle within the Center East has fueled anger and outrage within the U.S.
Our Mark Strassmann stories.
(Start VT)
MARK STRASSMANN (voice-over): Fury’s march, pro-Palestinians, tens of hundreds of them, rallying this weekend in Washington.
PROTESTER: Palestine can be free!
MARK STRASSMANN: Sentiment simmering right here, however seething elsewhere, venom and menace on the prowl, elbowing apart empathy and style.
(SHOUTING)
MARK STRASSMANN: From in-person bullying to on-line barbarity.
From the primary Hamas gunshot on October 7, the Web grew to become a welter of hatreds, scuttering throughout mainstream and extremist platforms.
In London, Hannah Rose with ISD, the Institute for Strategic Dialogue, screens on-line hate speech.
HANNAH ROSE (Institute for Strategic Dialogue): It is nonetheless far larger than at common ranges.
MARK STRASSMANN: And is that true of all hate speech, Muslims, Jews as targets?
HANNAH ROSE: It is true of antisemitism and anti-Muslim hatred.
MARK STRASSMANN: Within the three days after the preliminary Hamas assault, ISD stories, antisemitic feedback on conflict-related YouTube movies elevated by virtually 5000 p.c. Anti-Muslim key phrases spiked greater than 400 p.c.
HANNAH ROSE: What we find out about on-line antisemitism and anti-Muslim hatred is that it by no means stays on-line.
MARK STRASSMANN: A Palestinian-American boy of 6 stabbed to demise close to Chicago. His attacker reportedly yelled: “You Muslims should die.”
In New York, this suspect allegedly punched a girl within the face. He instructed her: “Since you are Jewish.”
America’s Jewish group is understandably skittish. Lower than 3 p.c of the nation’s inhabitants, they’re the targets of roughly 60 p.c of all non secular hate crimes. And that was earlier than the October 7 Hamas assaults.
CHRISTOPHER WRAY (FBI Director): This can be a risk that’s reaching, in some methods, type of historic ranges.
MARK STRASSMANN: FBI Director Christopher Wray testified this week the risk is actual.
DIRECTOR CHRISTOPHER WRAY: This isn’t a time for panic, however it’s a time for vigilance.
(SHOUTING)
MARK STRASSMANN: On a regular basis Individuals a half-world away from Gaza, however caught within the crossfire, together with, horrifically, a 6-year-old boy.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mark Strassmann reporting.
We can be proper again.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Immediately kicks off a giant week in politics. Anthony Salvanto can be alongside in our second half-hour with a brand new nationwide ballot.
After which it is Tuesday, Election Day, 2023. And CBS Information Streaming may have dwell election night time protection beginning at 8:00 anchored by Norah O’Donnell and that includes the remainder of our CBS Information political reporting workforce.
We can be proper again with the Palestinian perspective to this battle.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome again to FACE THE NATION.
Husam Zomlot is the Palestinian Authority ambassador to the UK. He joins us from London this morning.
Ambassador, thanks for becoming a member of us.
You have been most lately additionally the consultant of the Palestinian Authority right here in the USA.
Secretary Blinken was in Ramallah right this moment. There have been no public statements made. Was this a tense assembly along with your president?
HUSAM ZOMLOT (Palestinian Authority Ambassador To The U.Ok.): Sure, as a result of there are variations. Our president demanded a right away ceasefire to the atrocious, murderous assault by Israel on our civilians, on our individuals. This isn’t a battle towards Hamas. It is clear because it began it is a battle towards our individuals, not solely in Gaza, by the best way, but additionally within the West Financial institution. Ten thousand harmless civilians, virtually half of them are youngsters. And, due to this fact, that is the important thing level now, not solely as a result of we wish to cease the atrocities, the carnage, the deliberate killing of our individuals, but additionally we do not need this to unfold over. Each minute we wait there’s a danger of spreading over.
And, thirdly, we have to see the U.S. taking part in the position of an trustworthy mediator, not adopting the Israeli narrative and the Israeli line, given how historic and, you realize, with the genocidal rhetoric popping out of Tel Aviv proper now. We wanted a grownup within the room, and that’s the U.S.
Sadly, we have not heard that. And that is why we didn’t give you a joint assertion.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
HUSAM ZOMLOT: We had some good concepts from Secretary of State Blinken in regards to the future. We heard his dedication to a political decision that may result in an finish to Israel’s occupation, a complete one that features the West Financial institution and Gaza with east Jerusalem because the capital of the state of Palestine.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
HUSAM ZOMLOT: And we – we agree with all of that. However there can be a time to debate that. Now could be the time to cease the barrels of the gun, to cease the homicide of our civilians.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, you have been speaking about in –
HUSAM ZOMLOT: And this entire speak, Margaret, about pauses –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
HUSAM ZOMLOT: Pauses, humanitarian pauses, is solely irresponsible. Pauses of crimes towards humanity.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Look –
HUSAM ZOMLOT: And so, we’ll pause for six hours, killing our youngsters, after which we resume killing the kids.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly –
HUSAM ZOMLOT: I imply this – this does not stand even worldwide legal guidelines.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Let me ask – let me –
HUSAM ZOMLOT: So, sure, there are disagreements and we search extra.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Let me interrupt you right here and say, you realize, the deputy nationwide safety adviser to the president gave the Palestinian Authority credit score for sustaining stability within the West Financial institution right this moment. Israeli forces say they detained 1,200 individuals since October seventh, 740 of them related to Hamas within the West Financial institution. So how steady is the West Financial institution and the Palestinian Authority proper now?
HUSAM ZOMLOT: It’s not steady and that is not an correct description of the scenario within the West Financial institution. Our individuals within the West Financial institution throughout are topic to assaults by the settler militias that your – White Home and secretary of state spoke about. It is very risky and harmful. Many, many Palestinians over the past three weeks. You are speaking about greater than 134 the final quantity I obtained, killed by Israeli – unlawful Israeli militias and Israeli military.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
HUSAM ZOMLOT: We’re speaking about provocations in Jerusalem. And you know the way risky the scenario in – in Jerusalem. And also you’re speaking about an assault towards our individuals all over the place. So, this is not about West Financial institution and Gaza. The West Financial institution and Gaza are subjected to the exact same train. Now, (INAUDIBLE) – permit me – permit – permit – permit me, Margaret –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Understood, however I need – I am asking about – about your – let me ask you, although, about your authorities as a result of there’s a critical dialog being had by American diplomats in regards to the Palestinian Authority taking over a job of governing in Gaza as properly.
So, speak to me about that as a result of we simply heard, you realize, that you’ve got a monetary downside proper now, partly as a result of the Israeli authorities is withholding a few of the tax revenues and claiming they’re doing it as a result of Palestinian Authority hasn’t condemned Hamas adequately in these October seventh assaults. So, do you wish to clear the air and clearly condemn the assault in (ph) Hamas right this moment?
HUSAM ZOMLOT: No, I wish to clear the document. To start with, the Palestinian authority shouldn’t be what represents the Palestinian individuals. It is the PLO. It is the Palestine Liberation Group. I represented the PLO in Washington. Now I symbolize the PLO in – in – in London. The PA doesn’t have exterior arms. The only real respectable consultant of the Palestinian individuals is the PLO.
Quantity two, let me make clear one other matter. It is the state of Palestine that may take over and shield its peoples and the West Financial institution in Jerusalem and in Gaza as soon as the Palestinian occupied territory is liberated.
Quantity three, it’s the alternative for the U.S. to be the peacemaker. Primary, the leaders have made – leaders have made – let me – let me – leaders have made – leaders have made the PLO –
MARGARET BRENNAN: I am certain you are involved about that tax income, although? Do you wish to clear the air and condemn it?
HUSAM ZOMLOT: De-designate the PLO from the terrorist checklist within the U.S. Congress. He – your secretary of state simply shake the hand of the – of the top of the president of the PLO after 30 years of signing the Oslo Accords, after 30 years of committing to worldwide regulation and negotiations, the U.S. ought to try this. The U.S. ought to acknowledge the state of Palestine and permit us to be a full member within the U.N. And the U.S. should instantly cease voting – vetoing, sorry, our makes an attempt at accountability (INAUDIBLE).
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure. These are many years price of issues.
HUSAM ZOMLOT: It will deliver – this may deliver – this – this may deliver an
MARGARET BRENNAN: These are many years price of issues. I am simply asking about this one particular subject on October seventh and the tax income.
HUSAM ZOMLOT: No, no, no, not many years. Not many years. Not – not – not – not many years. No. It is the results of us probably not specializing in the foundation trigger. That is the second of the U.S. to play the position of the worldwide – the worldwide – the –
MARGARET BRENNAN: I perceive there are deep root causes, however on that particular condemnation it could simply be a really fast reply.
HUSAM ZOMLOT: No. And permit me, Margaret, as a result of I watch your interview with Israeli ambassador, and he mentioned two issues. Crucial. He mentioned, you realize, these are unintended penalties, the ten,000 harmless individuals, the virtually 5,000 youngsters. I wish to additionally clear the document right here. That is deliberate and this has been the Israeli navy doctrine since its institution. Hitting the civilians in order that they put stress on the fighters from the time of the (INAUDIBLE), 1948 –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
HUSAM ZOMLOT: And pushing out, ethnically cleaning two-thirds of the nation to Beirut and sub-Russia (ph) and (INAUDIBLE).
MARGARET BRENNAN: I perceive.
HUSAM ZOMLOT: To Gaza and all over the place. This can be a navy doctrine.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
HUSAM ZOMLOT: Quantity two, he – Israel commits to worldwide regulation. In the event that they decide to worldwide regulation, this isn’t a battle. A battle doesn’t occur between an occupied and an occupier.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
HUSAM ZOMLOT: That is an oppression – an oppression of our individuals. Wars solely occur between two sovereign states.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. Properly, Ambassador –
HUSAM ZOMLOT: So, it is a second whenever you empower the state of Palestine that may be capable of shield its individuals, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. Now we have to go away the dialog there, but it surely’s very clear that it is actually the USA speaking a couple of peace settlement, two state options, and also you didn’t clearly condemn that.
So, Ambassador, thanks for sharing the Palestinian viewpoint. Now we have to go away it there. Thanks.
We’ll be proper again.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: On Friday we spoke with the heads of the For Nation Caucus, a gaggle of veterans within the Home led by Colorado Democrat Jason Crow and Texas Republican Tony Gonzales. We started by asking them about their bipartisan efforts.
(BEGIN VT)
REP. JASON CROW (D-CO): What this caucus is all about is respecting one another and having the ability to have these debates the place we will agree on some primary details, we do not name one another evil, we do not name one another names. We’re not maligning one another personally. We’re truly having coverage debates and determining learn how to transfer our nation ahead.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Why do you assume, Congressman Gonzales, that being veterans in some way modifications the – the best way you are in a position to communicate to one another about these items?
REP. TONY GONZALES (R-TX): I imply it is so simple as service and people which have worn the material, and no matter service, they love this nation, and we work collectively to resolve actual issues.
The Afghan particular curiosity visas. I imply these are essential points. Loads of us spent a number of time, I spent 5 years in Afghanistan. We do not wish to lose sight of our allies, and we do not wish to depart these individuals behind. We have pushed exhausting with this caucus to – to provide Ukraine all the pieces they should win this battle, to incorporate F-16s. We have been very early. We have been the primary bipartisan caucus to push the administration for F-16. And now you are seeing them begin to come round.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You’ve got each, I ought to say on the get go, been outspoken in your perception that Israel has a proper to defend itself within the wake of these horrific terror assaults that have been carried out October seventh. You, Congressman Crow, have mentioned simply this week, Israel’s navy confirmed it was an Israeli assault that bombed that Palestinian refugee camp in Gaza. You mentioned, “This could not have occurred. I fought wars in crowded cities. When civilians have been current, it modified our plans.” Arguably, that is doubtlessly a battle crime. Why did you assume it was essential so that you can say this?
JASON CROW: As a result of I stand with Israel and its proper to defend itself. And I consider very firmly that Hamas should be destroyed, can’t be allowed to exist as a – as a terrorist group and pose threats to the Palestinians and to the Israelis.
I fought thrice in Iraq and Afghanistan. This – this nation spent 20 years at battle, spent over $3 trillion to destroy al Qaeda, to destroy ISIS, and but these organizations nonetheless exist. So, the lesson drawn from that’s that you simply can not destroy a terrorist ideology with navy means alone. It’s important to have politics, you need to have diplomacy, you need to have humanitarian help, as a result of you’ll be able to kill a terrorist, however should you destroy or kill harmless civilians, you create extra terrorists within the course of. So, that’s the reason I’m adamant that to help Israel, to do that the appropriate approach, we now have to place entrance and middle the safety of civilians. And each time the USA makes a mistake, or strays from our path, I name it out as a result of the trail to getting higher and bettering is being trustworthy. However that
MARGARET BRENNAN: However that is usually framed as both for or towards terrorists.
JASON CROW: Sure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You are saying, no, you’ll be able to prosecute a battle on terrorism with out inflicting mass civilian casualties.
JASON CROW: Properly, I spent years in my earlier profession preventing terrorists, actually preventing terrorists, and seeing a few of my mates give all the pieces throughout that course of. I’m a really ardent nationwide safety Democrat. I do know that there isn’t a navy answer to those points alone. And since I need success, as a result of I need us to do higher and to study from our errors, we now have to be trustworthy once we do make these errors, and when our companions make these errors.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you agree with that, Congressman Gonzales?
TONY GONZALES: I feel battle is ugly. And I feel in battle there’s a number of nasty issues that occur. I feel it is essential – what you noticed this week within the Home is the Home handed help to Israel in a bipartisan method. And lots of – many individuals on the opposite facet of the aisle did not agree with the construction of it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
TONY GONZALES: However you noticed a dozen Democrats unconditionally help Israel. I unconditionally help Israel. No matter comes over our approach, I feel we now have to unconditionally stand with our allies.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However unconditionally is completely different from what Congressman Crow was saying, which was you’ll be able to prosecute a battle on terrorism with out inflicting mass civilian casualties. Do you agree with that?
TONY GONZALES: I might – I might argue that Israel shouldn’t be making an attempt to – to trigger civilian casualties. They’ve – they’ve –
MARGARET BRENNAN: However – however they’ve was the – the very fact of that bombing.
TONY GONZALES: In each battle – in each battle there’s casualties.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You assume it is unavoidable?
TONY GONZALES: I feel it is unavoidable with what is going on. However I additionally consider Israel is doing all the pieces it could to make this navy targets and never punish a inhabitants. However how do you eradicate a terrorist group that’s embedded in each side of – of a civilization? It is a very tough downside set to have. However assume again to the 1,400 Israelis that have been slaughtered. I imply, Israel did not begin this battle.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
TONY GONZALES: I am of the mindset, you realize, a ceasefire must happen when Hamas is eradicated.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper. However you have been drawing a distinction between Hamas and hundreds of civilians. And that is the pushback in your argument is that there must be a brighter line in relation to civilians?
TONY GONZALES: Sure. There – there does. There – there – there must be a definite, when does this battle finish? How does this battle finish? In my eyes the battle ends when Hamas is – is eradicated. And in addition I feel again to, these threats will not be simply overseas, they’re right here in the USA.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There was an increase in anti-Semitism. The administration has talked about – we have talked about, the FBI has talked about. The truth is, the FBI director mentioned, Jews make up 2.4 p.c of the general public however account for 60 p.c of the non secular primarily based hate crimes. That was earlier than October seventh. This has been an issue in the USA of America.
Let me ask you about rhetoric, although. Do you oppose Donald Trump’s repeated requires a ban on Muslims? He only in the near past introduced that up once more.
TONY GONZALES: I – I do not take note of what the earlier president is sort of–
MARGARET BRENNAN: You endorsed him.
TONY GONZALES: Properly, however I do not listen – I imply, OK, I imply, ban on Muslims, of us coming over right here from these completely different nations, I am of – – I am of the mindset of this –
MARGARET BRENNAN: As a result of it could contradict what you have been speaking about with the Afghan Adjustment Act.
TONY GONZALES: Properly, I am of the mindset of this. Individuals that may come over right here legally, individuals which can be coming over right here to do, you realize, to go to our – our colleges and do these various things, completely tremendous. I do not care the place you come from, what faith you might be. However if you’re actively going towards the USA, should you’re actively encouraging, inciting a riot and terrorism, your visa must be instantly revoked and you ought to be deported.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Positive.
TONY GONZALES: You are able to do each. It would not should be a common ban on everybody.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
TONY GONZALES: It additionally should not be a – a – no legal guidelines are enforced. That is the place the administration is getting it fallacious.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Positive.
TONY GONZALES: They don’t seem to be implementing something.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Positive.
Simply on the theme of civility, I feel preciseness in language and never utilizing ethnic teams or non secular teams, would you advise that, that anybody in – in workplace not name for bans of non secular teams or ethnic teams, or deportations?
TONY GONZALES: I do not – sure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I do know you pay a number of consideration to immigration points.
TONY GONZALES: Positive. I do not take a look at the – I do not take a look at the race, faith, creed, I take a look at the motion. And I feel if we concentrate on the motion, the motion during which these people are doing, and we concentrate on that, after which we maintain them accountable. As soon as once more, the administration shouldn’t be deporting anybody that’s actively opening – that’s actively inciting this terrorism. That is the place the phrases – you realize, when the president will get up there and says, I stand with Israel, your phrases should equal your actions.
JASON CROW: And I am going to simply say, offering materials help to a international terrorist group is towards the regulation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure. Already.
JASON CROWN: There are – there are quite a few investigations alongside these traces. There have been quite a few prosecutions. And I’ve no cause to consider this administration doesn’t implement these legal guidelines and to take that very significantly. They do. I do know they do. And they need to proceed to.
I am extraordinarily involved in regards to the surge of anti-Semitism. It’s unacceptable. I condemn Hamas and I condemn those that help or present a permission construction for Hamas. And I am very disturbed about incidents on campuses and incidents across the nation the place we see younger individuals doing that. Clearly, there’s freedom of speech, however there is a level at which freedom of speech turns into a violation of regulation if you’re offering materials help.
(END VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: And the total interview will be seen on our web site and on our YouTube channel. Test it out and stick with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we’re again with Ukraine’s ambassador to the USA, Oksana Markarova.
Good morning and good to have you ever again right here.
OKSANA MARKAROVA (Ukrainian Ambassador to the U.S.: Good morning. Good to be again.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Your president has mentioned that the battle within the Center East is diverting some consideration from the battle that is taking place in Ukraine. And he mentioned that is a part of Russia’s targets. So, I wish to hear from you, the place you assume the battle is, as a result of I do know that Ukraine has mentioned it’s working very wanting U.S. offered help.
OKSANA MARKAROVA: Properly, it is – the battle nonetheless continues the best way it was going. You recognize, the entrance line is 800 kilometers, it is 628th (ph) day. And the battle continues on all of this 800 miles truly not kilometer, miles. It is longer than from right here to Chicago. So, we do want ammunition. We do want air protection. We’d like the entire capabilities that we now have been receiving and we have been discussing. And, in fact, you realize, proper now all of the eyes are on U.S. Congress as a result of we’d like the continuation of that. We already run out of a few of the packages. We fully utilized them. And, sure, we now have because of the planning and Congress and the administration. Some stay in cash (ph) that we’re utilizing. However the time is of the essence.
And, in fact, Russia shouldn’t be solely making an attempt – we see all these visits of Hamas and Iran to Russia and we see how Iran and (INAUDIBLE) helped in Russia to struggle, but additionally Russia serving to a number of them and serving to Hamas overtly. So, you realize, we simply have to grasp that this battle on terror should be received all over the place and that we can not afford to lose focus in a single place or in different. That is why so as to have the ability to cease not solely Russia however different terroristic regimes, we additionally should win in Ukraine.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You are speaking about the truth that Hamas leaders lately visited Russia and that Iran is offering drones for Russia to make use of towards your individuals in Ukraine.
The brand new speaker of the Home, Mike Johnson, has modified his positions publicly on Ukraine. He did lately say he desires – he would not need Vladimir Putin to win and that he would bundle any Ukraine help with U.S. border help. Has he agreed to fulfill with you? Are you able to persuade him to maneuver rapidly?
OKSANA MARKAROVA: Properly, I might be comfortable to fulfill, in fact, every time there can be time and alternative, however I am very glad to listen to the speaker mentioned that we can not permit Putin to win. I feel all of us, Ukrainians, but additionally Individuals, on a really sturdy bipartisan foundation, perceive that it is essential for all of us. We can not let aggressive terroristic non- democratic nation to win, which simply began a battle of alternative with no provocation. This can be a violation of worldwide regulation, but it surely’s additionally violation of ideas on which America is constructed, the values of Individuals, but additionally what we try to construct our nation on. So, we now have to win, and America has to win on this one.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Your president was on one other community this morning and mentioned that he nonetheless would not have any cause to consider Russia desires to barter a peaceable finish to this battle. However there are a number of stories that there is stress in your authorities to conform to some sort of strategy to negotiate an finish to the preventing. Is there any motion?
OKSANA MARKAROVA: Properly, it is simply the stories. Russia by no means meant to barter. They do not – their intent is to destroy us. An we see it on the battlefield and we see it in all of the – should you can name them diplomatic interactions of their ambassadors. However, no, you realize, they’re – intent may be very clear, they’re bombing civilians. Simply right this moment they once more bombed Odessa. They’re bombing our nation all over the place. They’re getting ready, in fact, to bomb us much more throughout the winter. And they’re making an attempt all the pieces doable on their lengthy frontline to – to attain some sort of navy objective. So, that is not how individuals who wish to truly negotiate peace act. Individuals who wish to negotiate peace first cease their aggressive battle, get out from our nation, after which negotiate. So, no, I do not assume we must always – let’s not get fooled by any of the stories, whether or not they’re on nameless sources and even some Russian sources.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The – your president has additionally talked in regards to the want for extra air protection as a result of Russia has strengthened its talents. He mentioned the F-16s the U.S. promised, they will not arrive for some time. That Ukraine want to borrow planes. How would that work? Is there some sort of rapid strategy to tackle this want?
OKSANA MARKAROVA: Properly, there are a variety – like we’re open for any concepts to cooperate. So, we’re very grateful to American individuals for all of the gear that we’re getting on these packages, you realize, was your funding from your individual shares and we actually once more rely on Congress to proceed that. We’re able to lease or lease or use every other gear, together with the American gear. It is not solely from the U.S. We’re able to co- produce collectively. It is one of many essential outcomes of the president, Zelenskyy’s go to to the U.S. And we’re working in that course with American corporations.
So, you realize, we perceive that we’d like way more to win now, however we additionally must construct our future drive as a result of even after we win, Russia shouldn’t be going to vanish someplace. And they’ll proceed to be a risk, not solely to us, however to European Union, to the U.S., to everybody, to transatlantic group.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Ambassador, thanks in your time.
We’ll be again in a second.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Immediately marks precisely one yr from the 2024 presidential election and what might find yourself being a rematch between Joe Biden and Donald Trump. Our new CBS Information ballot exhibits Biden continues to path Donald Trump in that doable head-to-head. He’s now down 3 factors.
For extra on why we go to Anthony Salvanto.
Good morning to you, Anthony.
ANTHONY SALVANTO: Good morning, Margaret.
To know these numbers, we needed to have a look at views about each right this moment and the longer term. SO, first, the variety of Individuals who assume that issues are going badly within the nation right this moment has hit its excessive for the yr. So that you would possibly count on any incumbent to be down, as Biden is.
However then take a look at these optimistic views and what individuals assume will occur to them lastly if Donald Trump wins. Far more voters assume they’d be higher off. And Biden, for his half, hasn’t totally satisfied as many Democrats that he’d assist them as the center class nonetheless reels from inflation.
Then let’s look abroad. There’s extra voters we discover who assume that it is Trump that will maintain the U.S. out of a battle if he wins. Now, that is pushed by a number of Republican unity on that concept.
Let’s take a look at Israel specifically. Individuals sympathize with the Israeli individuals. Most Democrats assume that Biden would present the correct amount of help, however Democrats are extra divided over navy help to Israel particularly.
Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Anthony, thanks.
And that is going to be it for us right this moment. Thanks for watching. Till subsequent week, for FACE THE NATION, I am Margaret Brennan.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
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