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Vital different not sharing your enthusiasm for actual property? Possibly you might have desires of shopping for your first property or going full-time with an actual property enterprise, however your accomplice isn’t on board. You’re not alone! The reality is that investing in actual property is a big choice, and {couples} aren’t all the time on the identical web page. Fortuitously, there are methods to align your targets and construct a worthwhile actual property enterprise collectively.
On this episode of the Actual Property Rookie podcast, we’re chatting with Zosia Madden. Right this moment, Zosia and her husband Tyler function two companies—a profitable building firm and a seven-figure actual property enterprise with twelve rental properties. Regardless of their latest success, the couple confronted many challenges earlier than going all-in on actual property—together with the query of whether or not Zosia ought to go away the stability of her W2 job. As you may count on, they didn’t arrive at this choice in a single day. It took a number of conversations—crammed with vision-casting, goal-setting, and strategizing—earlier than Zosia was in a position to put in her two-week discover.
For those who and your vital different appear to be on two completely different wavelengths, you don’t wish to miss this episode! Zosia, Ashley, and Tony cowl a number of the most essential questions you’ll wish to ask your accomplice in your journey towards monetary freedom. In addition they focus on subjects that many rookie buyers battle with—reminiscent of paying your self, hiring fractional advisors, and the programs and processes that can allow you to scale your actual property enterprise!
Ashley:
That is Actual Property Rookie episode 301.
Zosia:
Till lately I stop my final job proper round center of January full-time. And so this has been a brand new expertise for the each of us, nevertheless it’s been actually thrilling. I believe whenever you instantly inform your partner or your accomplice or your youngsters to do one thing, their quick response is, “No.” I don’t know why. It’s your pal tells you, “Completely, I wish to go do this factor.” Your partner tells you it’s, “I’m undecided about that. There’s undoubtedly obtained to be a catch.” And so I believe that’s what spouses which are having hassle, I believe be affected person and be very clear and concise as to why you’re sharing the knowledge and what you need out of it. And I believe your partner can perceive much more.
Ashley:
My title is Ashley Kehr and I’m right here with Tony Robinson.
Tony:
And welcome to the Actual Property Rookie Podcast, the place each week, twice every week, we convey you the inspiration, motivation, and tales you must hear to kickstart your investing journey. And we’re right here, we’re in individual in Denver. And Ash, we don’t get to do that sufficient. We couldn’t be bodily additional away from one another after we’re truly recording the podcast as a result of I’m in California, she’s in New York.
Ashley:
Yeah.
Tony:
And is there something above New York? I don’t know my geography.
Ashley:
Canada.
Tony:
Simply Canada. It’s Canada that’s subsequent, proper?
Ashley:
Yeah.
Tony:
We actually couldn’t be additional away from one another, so it’s all the time cool we will get collectively in individual. And we’ve obtained a very cool episode for you guys right now. You guys have met her husband, Tyler Madden, however right now we’ve got Zosia Madden on the podcast. And I really like the Maddens and I actually loved this dialog as a result of not solely was it about actual property investing, nevertheless it was additionally about all the tangential issues which are so essential to achieve success as an actual property investor.
Ashley:
And we contact right here quite a bit on partnerships. They’re clearly a married couple of their partnership, however how they’re engaged on two companies collectively. And Tony and I lately wrote a guide Powered by Partnerships, which is popping out in August. And I really feel like we should always have Zosia write little model into the tip of the guide right here about it as a result of a variety of the knowledge she gave was so highly effective on enterprise partnerships and relationships with your online business accomplice, whether or not they’re your partner or not. I believe a number of the largest takeaways for me was learn how to set up and preserve your function and what these tasks are and learn how to develop that, but in addition learn how to preserve a very good relationship together with your accomplice that you just’re working with.
Tony:
And we spent a variety of time truly simply speaking concerning the idea of getting your partner on board. That’s a query that comes up on a regular basis. We hear it on a regular basis, see it on a regular basis. And it was only a actually… I don’t know, it was only a actually insightful dialog round what that truly means and learn how to obtain that. For those who’re listening to this podcast and also you need your online business accomplice, your partner, whoever, girlfriend, boyfriend to cite unquote, “get on board”, this can be a nice episode for you.
Ashley:
And Tony does an amazing job of explaining the three ranges of getting on board as to what these three ranges are and what it means to get anyone on board in these three completely different ranges.
Tony:
Excited for the dialog with Zosia. That is the a part of the podcast, or that is the a part of the podcast the place I normally learn a evaluate from somebody within the Rookie viewers, however since we have been right here in Denver, we thought what higher factor to do than to have somebody learn a evaluate reside from the viewers. Right this moment we’ve got Tyler Madden who’s on the spot, and he’s simply going to make up a evaluate after which he’ll truly put up that evaluate as soon as he’s accomplished on Apple Podcasts.
Tyler:
You guess I’ll. So far as this episode, I can’t say that I may love any episode or any visitor greater than I liked this episode and this visitor. I’m amazed that I get to work with this individual. I discovered quite a bit about working together with your partner, coming collectively on a typical purpose, with the ability to dream collectively together with your partner or your accomplice. And I’d rent this visitor in a heartbeat to work with me.
Tony:
That’s a great-
Zosia:
I believe it says there too, how engaging all three have been.
Tyler:
Let me add that now.
Zosia:
I simply asking.
Ashley:
Often we learn the username. What’s your username for-
Tony:
That’s Certain. What’s your username?
Ashley:
… your Apple podcast?
Tony:
No, truly, we would like your first e mail deal with. Give me your first e mail addresses.
Tyler:
Oh, my first e mail deal with that I ever had my MySpace deal with?
Tony:
Yeah.
Tyler:
Oh, wake setters rock.
Tony:
That’s truly not that dangerous.
Tyler:
Most likely @Yahoo or Hotmail.
Zosia:
AOL.
Tyler:
AOL.
Tony:
Aol.com. My first e mail was [email protected]
Zosia:
I believe mine was like snowboard chick evening.
Tyler:
Nailed it. We nailed the display screen nickname… You get that accomplished.
Ashley:
Zosia, welcome to the podcast. We’re so completely satisfied to have you ever right here. We’ve had your husband, Tyler Madden on a few occasions and welcome to the present.
Zosia:
Thanks for having me. I’m excited to be right here.
Ashley:
Are you able to let everybody know a little bit bit about your self and why you’re right here?
Zosia:
Yeah, completely. My title is Zosia Madden and I work with my husband Tyler at our building firm known as Laurelless. And till lately, truly that was very lately, I stop my final job proper round center of January full-time. And so this has been a brand new expertise for each of us, nevertheless it’s been actually thrilling. And earlier than that I used to be in eating places for over 15 years of excessive degree government groups there. After which went to BP for a minute and now I’m working with Tyler, so very excited. We put money into actual property right here in Denver and Aurora, so we’ve got a pleasant little funding egg right here as nicely. And I’m a mother to a two-year-old. Life’s loopy.
Tony:
Simply set the desk for us, Zosia. How Tyler’s already accomplished this for folk that don’t have the backstory. What number of models are you guys as much as, buildings, et cetera, right here in Denver?
Zosia:
Completely. We’re presently at 12 leases. We now have 11 medium time period leases of that. All of them are-
Tony:
You guys have 11 now?
Zosia:
We do have 11 now.
Tony:
11. I didn’t know that.
Zosia:
Walmart’s explaining my supply occasions presently on my watch, I believe.
Tony:
That’s superior.
Zosia:
We simply determined to show a few them after I opened them up on Airbnb for some long-term individuals and I obtained 10 requests in a day. And so I stated, you already know what? Let’s simply furnish them. And the fellows which are residing there presently are prepared to place collectively the furnishings, which I felt was clutch. I’m saving a little bit little bit of time and vitality there. However we’re at 11, our portfolio’s slightly below $4 million with these 4 properties, which is basically cool. In Denver, we put money into a excessive… I don’t know, it’s an costly market, however we do issues the best means. My husband spoke about on the final podcast is that we purchased seven models .
I used to be 9 months pregnant. That complete course of was loopy and we sacrificed quite a bit. However I believe the ROI was big on these offers, which led us into the latest deal we simply completed in January. However I do know Rachel talked about she lived in one of many properties on the final episode. After which we’re on the lookout for a brand new one. We’re doing our first flip in Denver, which we’ve by no means accomplished a flip earlier than. We’ve all the time been purchase and maintain buyers. And so this is able to be a variety of enjoyable. We’re going actually heavy with the design ingredient on this one, and we predict that it’s going to end up very well.
Ashley:
That that’s superb. And congratulations in your accomplishments, and I’m certain there’s going to be much more to return. However let’s discuss you transitioning from a W-2 to working instantly for the development firm and also you guys do remodels. And we simply had Rachel Richards on episode 300 the place she had employed you guys and he or she was certainly one of your first investor purchasers, the place you normally gone and accomplished excessive finish luxurious remodels. And we did some bonus content material too, if anybody desires to examine that out, the place we truly interviewed Zosia and Rachel the place they inform all about that have collectively. And also you’ll discover out in the event that they’re buddies or not or in the event that they hate one another.
Tony:
That was an amazing tease, Ash. That was true-
Ashley:
It was good.
Zosia:
I wish to watch it now.
Ashley:
There might need simply been a fist struggle out within the parking zone and Rachel left, however you may watch the bonus content material to search out out. Inform us concerning the mindset shift you needed to undergo of… And you probably did this pre-show to us as to saying, okay, right here you might be on the W-2 and right here’s your husband constructing the enterprise through the day. And also you’re happening these reverse paths after which at evening coming again collectively to work on the enterprise. Clarify that transition that occurred as soon as, now you each are engaged on the enterprise. What’s your day-to-day like?
Zosia:
I believe it’s fascinating as a result of I believe lots of people have it of their head that I’m going to stop my W-2, I’m going to turn out to be financially free and stop my W-2. However oftentimes it’s not that simple and it truly is, it takes a variety of effort and time and vitality and actually making certain you’re on the identical web page with the partner that you just’re making an attempt to do this with. Some individuals could possibly be doing it single, I get that. However for our journey it was, I liked my W-2s all the time. I used to be very profitable. I made some huge cash. I moved up the company ladders. And for me it was consistency and it felt protected to all the time have that W-2. Now, it was additionally actually essential all these years for me to have that as a result of it helped give us the leverage that we wanted to purchase a few of our preliminary properties.
I don’t assume that we may have accomplished a number of the properties that we did with out having that constant paycheck. But it surely got here to a crossroads when, I believe what occurred was, it actually occurred once I turned pregnant and we purchased these seven models and we sacrificed quite a bit at the moment. Tyler was working late nights on the venture. He was nonetheless swinging the hammer on these to guarantee that the offers made sense. I used to be feeding the babe and there till 10:00 PM waking up in the midst of the evening whereas he was coming house. And so I believe that individuals don’t typically take into consideration all of the sacrifices you must make to have the ability to get to the purpose of with the ability to stop a W-2. And I believe one of many breaking factors was we have been frequently doing that. We have been veering off after which typically we’d come again collectively after which we have been veering off once more.
And what that was, it was not permitting us to reside a parallel life in direction of our targets and in direction of what we needed as our future. And so what actually was the altering level was we went as much as Breckenridge and we took Money, however throughout his nap occasions, we set our intentions. We checked out the place we needed to be in 10 years, in 5 years. And we’d all the time had huge targets, however they have been fluffy. They have been like, “Hey, we wish to do huge issues. We wish to take over the world.”
Ashley:
Like no plan.
Zosia:
No plan or motion. After which we stated, “Okay, the place are we actually at financially proper now? The place may we be if I stop my job and helped develop Laurelless?” As a result of on the time it was simply Tyler and our venture supervisor. They have been taking up only a few jobs right here and there actually efficiently. By a couple of jobs I imply they’re half one million greenback jobs, so that you don’t should tackle a variety of them with the enterprise that we’ve got. But it surely nonetheless felt like we have been off. And at that second, we set our sights on the place we needed to be in 10 years. After which we stated, “Okay, how may we get there in 5?” After which we nonetheless thought, “Okay, I’m going to remain at a job for one more 12 months, 12 months and a half, possibly two.”
After which at a sure second we simply stated, “No, our targets and the place we will turn out to be and the place we may go and what it might do for our relationship and the place we’re collectively and develop the enterprise was extra essential than maintaining that W-2.” And we knew that our funds have been set due to our rental portfolio, which was useful, however we additionally knew that what I used to be going to convey to the enterprise would make up the dividends as nicely on the opposite facet.
Ashley:
This journey to Breckenridge.
Zosia:
Sure.
Ashley:
Alignment assembly, per se.
Zosia:
Sure.
Ashley:
This was a giant change for you guys.
Zosia:
Completely.
Ashley:
What are three, possibly questions rookies right now may sit down with their vital different, their partner, their enterprise accomplice, three questions they might sit down and ask one another that will convey them to that very same sort of influence for his or her life. What are three issues you may consider?
Zosia:
Let me give me a fast story. It began with Tyler doing the 60-day problem with you and Steve Rosenberg and doing these I’m statements each morning. And so we had began doing these I’m statements and so they’re affirmational morning statements. However what Tyler and I had accomplished is a few years in the past, gone in separate rooms and created our I’m statements individually. What we did in Breckenridge is we went line by line of what have been issues that I’m affirming every single day and what he was affirming every single day. And we discovered that over 50% have been nearly precisely the identical, however we didn’t even understand it. We didn’t know that we have been shifting in direction of the identical day-to-day as a result of we all the time did that as our separate thoughts time. I believe that, work out the place you wish to go after which actually align together with your partner on let’s go line by line.
And we’ve got 20 I’m statements. I’m captivated with my life or I’m not held again by self-limiting beliefs, issues like that the place it’s reminding myself to get out of my very own head typically. After which we’ve got greater crew targets of I’m not buying and selling my time for cash and issues like that, the place then rapidly we’ve got the identical ones each single day. I believe that’s actually essential. I believe asking yourselves, what does your excellent day appear like in 5 years? Which is basically arduous for lots of people to reply.
Ashley:
That’s for me so arduous.
Zosia:
It’s actually arduous. And my reply’s nonetheless a little bit fluffy, however I believe general I’ve a very good understanding of what that appears like and it’s not, not working.
Ashley:
Do you thoughts sharing it with us?
Zosia:
Yeah, for certain. I believe in 5 years our excellent time is we get up on a seaside. I do know the place, I understand how it feels, and I’m with Tyler and Money, we’re in a position to examine in that our companies are working and companies plural, however I get to take pleasure in my time and my vitality the place I wish to spend my time and my vitality. And once more, it’s not like I’m going to do that, this and this every single day, however I do know it’s an essence and it’s a sense that I like and that’s actually what I’m working in direction of and that’s what we’re working in direction of.
Tony:
I simply wish to share one thought as a result of I battle with the day factor too, and I like to take a look at it extra as what does my excellent week appear like? As a result of I really feel like that provides you a little bit bit extra flexibility.
Zosia:
Completely. Sure.
Tony:
As a result of I take pleasure in podcasting, however would I wish to do is every single day? Possibly not.
Zosia:
However in a week-
Tony:
But it surely’s like, if I can squeeze this right into a Tuesday, after we do that on Tuesdays. For those who’re listening to this, you’re like, “I can’t take into consideration what my excellent day appears like.” Zoom it out just a bit bit and say, “What does my excellent week appear like?
Zosia:
That’s tremendous useful. I do assume typically we’re scoped too far down to consider greater image. After which I believe quantity three is what may you alter right now or this week that would get you nearer to the place you wish to be in 5 years? I believe that typically it’s these small modifications, these small thought processes that we placed on the again burner and understand for those who take motion right now on these gadgets, it’ll simply compound. It’ll make quite a bit simpler to get to the place you wish to be.
Ashley:
That’s such an amazing assertion. Ask your self throughout that alignment assembly is what’s one factor we every could possibly be doing completely different every day to get nearer to that purpose? And that basically will get you considering. After which possibly begin considering of a few extra issues. These are literally three simple issues I can do which are going to alter my life dramatically.
Zosia:
How do you eat an elephant? It’s one chew at a time. And I believe all people talks about this, however so typically we predict we have to take it down instantly. We have to stop our jobs now. We’re in such an area of immediacy with the best way that the world is correct now, that we predict that the whole lot occurs actually rapidly. However Tony, you’ve been doing this for a very long time, Ashley, you’ve been doing this for a very long time. From what you began as property administration to what you’ve constructed now is a big distinction from what you discovered at your earlier jobs to constructing the true property, to attending to the place you might be. And a few persons are like, “Oh, they’re tremendous profitable. They did it in a single day.” And that’s simply together with your targets with the place you might be in your profession, something, it takes time.
Tony:
We have been all at a Brandon Turner’s Higher Life Occasion and we noticed Jay Papasan on talking and I actually loved his presentation. I’ve learn the guide the one factor.
Zosia:
It’s nice.
Tony:
However listening to him break it down in individual and it even gave extra energy to-
Zosia:
Completely.
Tony:
… the thought what you stated of right here’s my long-term purpose, what’s the one factor I can do right now, this week, et cetera, to sort of transfer in direction of that? A query that I get quite a bit too, as a result of part of the explanation why I really feel like me, you and Tyler and my spouse Sara, all get alongside is as a result of we resonate with the truth that we’re doing this as married {couples}.
Zosia:
Completely.
Tony:
And I do know one of many questions I all the time get is, “Tony, how did you get Sara on board?” What was the journey for you and Tyler? Was it all the time, “Hey, we’re going to do that collectively.”?
Zosia:
No.
Tony:
Stroll us by that journey. How did you get from, “I’m climbing the company ladder, I’m doing this factor, I’m actually good at it,” to, “Hey, I like this concept,” to, “I’m going to assist a little bit bit,” to, “Okay, cool, we’re doing this collectively.”
Ashley:
And it’s not even simply investing, it’s truly working enterprise too.
Tony:
Operating a enterprise.
Zosia:
And that’s what we are saying too. We’re working two companies collectively. I actually assume that in case you have an actual property portfolio, that’s a enterprise, for those who’re doing it proper. You could have a P&L, you perceive the place your bills are, you must have insurance coverage, all LLCs. You’re working a enterprise. We’re working two companies collectively, which is sort of insane when you consider it and we’ve got a toddler. We like one another most days. And so I’m like, “Okay, this is the reason it’s all working.” However no, I believe that it was a sluggish roll, which I believe I’ve heard is how you probably did it with Sara as nicely. As with something, I believe whenever you instantly inform your partner or your accomplice or your youngsters to do one thing, their quick response is, “No.” I don’t know why. It’s your pal tells you, “Completely, I wish to go do this factor.” Your partner tells you it’s, “I’m undecided about that. There’s undoubtedly obtained to be a catch.”
And so I believe that that was my sentiment for a very long time of, “That is too good to be true. I’m not likely certain.” Now return 10 years. I grew up in residences. My mother was a single mother. My mother has by no means owned a home, so I used to be all the time in residences. And so when Tyler goes, “Hey, let’s get a home,” I used to be confused as to why. We had an amazing house. It was nice. However that was an enormous change simply in my head area then of shopping for a home and seeing what Tyler did of the sweat fairness he put into that home. And us getting roommates earlier than home hacking was a time period to pay for issues. After which fast-forward, I believe actually when he realized that it was time for his mindset shift. I had accomplished one possibly 5 years prior. I had all the time needed to do management books with the job that I used to be in, and Tyler wasn’t prepared then. And understandably so once I was studying these, my mindset was in direction of my job that I used to be at on the present second.
And he didn’t actually perceive the way it impacted us as an entire. Now when Tyler was able to make that mindset shift, he stored on coming again to the way it made an influence on us as an entire, not simply him being a basic contractor or him in the true property area, which I believe is a big distinction whenever you understand that the knowledge that you just’re bringing to your partner could make a distinction to your life as an entire. I began seeing bits and items of that. He joined a few masterminds and a few challenges. I’d see how a lot effort and work he was placing into that, which inherently was much more than I had seen him put into something exterior of labor beforehand. He’s anyone that doesn’t tackle hobbies or get actually centered on one thing. And so I used to be actually impressed with seeing all of that.
After which I believe as soon as he obtained into listening to the podcast, I believe he actually began listening to the rookie podcast. I believe after you have been on the Steve factor to the OG podcast and simply another books. And slowly he would simply ship me video recordings of him driving within the automobile, however simply his cellphone as much as the recording of simply snippets. And he would simply textual content me the snippets. And I’m like, “Oh, that’s fascinating.” After which rapidly I’m listening to the podcast alone. And so I believe it was slowly of, “Okay, how can we do that?”
Ashley:
Planting the seed?
Zosia:
Positively planting the seeds. It was like not… What’s the other of a bamboo. Bamboos develop actually quick. It was regardless of the slowest rising seed there’s is was me. After which it was as soon as we… We’re comparatively spontaneous individuals. I believe you guys know this about us, we’re have been fairly spontaneous. There was only a sure second that it switched and rapidly it’s like we have been in Maui. I used to be 33 weeks pregnant, we have been on our babymoon, a realtor calls us with this deal, and we stated, “Go stroll it.” And we’re on this seaside and so they’re strolling the property right here in Denver. It’s snowing in Denver. And we’re like, “Let’s do it. How can we determine this out?” After which rapidly, one other deal got here our means in two weeks. And we’re like, “Nicely, that’s one million {dollars} in actual property in two weeks.” And we simply, I believe had… Fortunately Tyler had sufficient foundational info and we had been analyzing it on offers.
This isn’t like a, “Hey, simply randomly go and purchase one million {dollars} in actual property.” Do a variety of analysis, take your time, perceive what you’re doing. However we had all that info. And so we felt actually snug lastly doing it. And I believe that it was a partnership and us moving into on these. I believe it may have been some other means contemplating I used to be so pregnant and we knew what the work was going to be to take that. I believe, it was undoubtedly a sluggish inspirational, simply planting the seeds after which rapidly after we have been prepared, we have been prepared. And I believe you guys really feel that as a result of whenever you have been prepared, then rapidly the rocket ship occurred. You guys exploded. And so I believe that that’s what spouses which are having hassle, I believe be affected person and be very clear and concise as to why you’re sharing the knowledge and what you need out of it. And I believe your partner can perceive much more.
Tony:
You stated so many good issues in there, Zosia. However a few issues I wish to level out. First, you stated that you just noticed how severe Tyler was taking this. He joined masterminds and challenges. And I believe whenever you see your partner investing a variety of time and vitality into one thing, you as the opposite individual can hopefully acknowledge that that is one thing that’s severe. However I believe that solely works if there’s a sure degree of belief between the spouses.
Zosia:
Completely.
Tony:
As a result of if Tyler was the kind of man who had a special thought each different evening and half-assed the whole lot that he did when he got here into this actual property kick, it might simply be the newest taste of the week.
Zosia:
Completely.
Tony:
However as a result of that degree of belief was there so that you can know to that, if Tyler’s actually specializing in one thing, then that is one thing that’s severe.
Zosia:
Completely.
Tony:
I believe that’s the primary layer. And I believe what a variety of spouses who’re making an attempt to get their partner on board, what they battle with is the tempo at which the opposite partner desires to maneuver. And so they’re like, “I’m studying all these books. I’m going to those occasions. I would like you right here with me proper now.”
Zosia:
Prepared.
Tony:
And it doesn’t all the time work that means. And I believe the best way that you just discuss it the place it’s like, “Hey, let me simply ship you this one clip. I’m not going to ship you an entire podcast.”
Zosia:
No.
Tony:
15 seconds.
Zosia:
Precisely.
Tony:
And that’s an effective way to ease into it. Each partner strikes at their very own tempo. However the very last thing I’ll say on this… And I’d like to speak about this trigger the query comes up so typically. The very last thing I’ll say although is that individuals additionally want to know that simply because Tony and Sara or Tyler and Zosia are enterprise companions and so they’re doing it collectively, that doesn’t essentially imply that that’s what you and your partner are going to be. And there are ranges. It’s like you might have degree one the place your partner is opposed and so they’re like, “I don’t care what you say, I don’t care what you do. We’re not investing in actual property.” That’s the primary degree. The second degree is, “Hey, I see that is essential to you. I’m going to be supportive, however I’m going to remain over right here and I’m going to do my factor.” After which degree three is, “Okay, let’s do it collectively.”
And so many individuals they assume that getting their partner on board solely means degree three when actually it may simply imply degree two, your partner is there, they’re going to assist you, they’re going to encourage you, however possibly they like what they’re doing of their day job and possibly they need that for themselves.
Zosia:
Completely. And I believe that’s a very good level. And what we’ve realized is that train that we did in Breckenridge, going again to that mastermind of alignment, that doesn’t should be that you just’re going to work collectively. That alignment doesn’t should say we’re working collectively. That must be what you do together with your partner for those who’re on degree one or degree two. As a result of I believe that being on the identical web page and residing life collectively and nonetheless having fun with the day-today, whether or not or not you wish to do the identical issues, not all people is supposed to do the identical issues. And that’s completely nice. It really works for Tyler and I, it really works for you and Sara, however I do like what you’re saying. However I do assume that getting alignment, or a minimum of the place do you wish to reside your day on the day-to-day, your week to week, your month to month, your 12 months to 12 months, and understanding that whenever you come again collectively, whenever you retire, no matter that appears like, will you continue to know who one another are?
Have you ever been happening this journey collectively? Have you ever actually been conscious of what you need and the way you wish to get there, whether or not or not it’s collectively or separate? However for those who’ve determined to make that dedication and also you wish to stick in that dedication, then how are you going to reside that? And what lanes are you going to reside that in?
Tony:
So good. All proper. Sorry, I took us on a tangent there, however I assumed I used to be-
Ashley:
No, I believe that’s a very nice one to go on, as a result of that’s such a typical query that we get requested and I’m certain, particularly you. And even in my very own state of affairs the place I used to be on degree two. I used to be investing, my husband had no curiosity, and it ended up taking us completely different paths resulting in our separation. However I believe that that’s undoubtedly one thing actually essential to speak about to start with as to how you might be aligned. And having these alignment conferences. Like Zosia stated, it’s like, okay, whenever you get to the purpose the place you’re retired, you’re empty nesters, the youngsters are gone, do you continue to like one another? Do you continue to wish to do the identical issues every single day? You don’t have your jobs now that you just love. And it obtained to the purpose the place we each liked the separate companies and I used to be constructing my enterprise in order that he didn’t should do his enterprise.
That was my complete motive for beginning it, was in order that he didn’t should do the farm every single day. And it’s like, “Nicely, truly I wish to preserve doing the farm every single day.” And that’s the place it’s like, “Nicely, we will’t do something collectively now that we each need and we would like these completely different ends.” And it’s labored out nice. Every part is nice and stuff. However having these in conferences and understanding alongside the strains the place you’re each going as I used to be working for a totally completely different finish purpose than what truly he needed. I believe that having that readability from the very starting is so huge.
Tony:
However I believe that’s simply the arduous half about marriage typically. Who I’m right now at 32 may be very completely different than who I used to be at 25.
Zosia:
Completely.
Tony:
Very, very completely different than who I used to be at 20. And it’s like, I believe I really feel so lucky that as I’ve gone by these completely different phases, Sara and I’ve gone by… We’ve been pointed in the identical path, nevertheless it’s like, who is aware of? Possibly at 45 we’re going to be completely completely different individuals. My hope is that we’re nonetheless rising in that very same path. However I imply, you by no means know. Folks change over the many years.
Zosia:
I do know Tyler because the 17-year-old driving a 1984 Chevy Blazer, with the subwoofers at the back of his automobile to the one who was preventing for a profession and to changing into a GC, to be changing into a superb father. And we’ve seen that evolution of who we’re and undoubtedly who we’re at 17 is completely completely different than who we’re after we actually, actually began actively, we’re going to make a future collectively in 2009 or so. However we’ve recognized one another for over half our lives now, which is sort of loopy. And that very same with you and Sara, the place the truth that we’ve been in a position to do that… And there’s days the place we’ve got hiccups, don’t get me improper, it’s not all sunshine and butterflies each single day. There are occasions the place we’ve got to work on what we’re doing, however we’ve got determined to work on it. After which we work within the enterprise. There’s days the place I’m like, “I don’t like that enterprise choice.” Or he’s like, “I don’t like that enterprise choice.” And we’ve got to work by that now as a result of it’s not simply dinner.
Ashley:
And it’s so arduous.
Zosia:
It’s not simply dinner.
Ashley:
That private line and the work relationship-
Zosia:
That’s big.
Ashley:
… collectively. How do you not let the work battle with completely the private relationship.
Tony:
It’s a stability set.
Zosia:
Set boundaries.
Tony:
It’s a stability.
Zosia:
For certain.
Tony:
Nicely, let’s speak a little bit bit with Zosia now about what right now appears like.
Zosia:
Completely.
Tony:
You’ve left the W-2 world.
Zosia:
Left the W-2 world.
Tony:
And now you’re full-time right here each in the true property enterprise and the development enterprise. Two questions. What’s your function first, after which how did you determine between you and Tyler that will be your function?
Zosia:
One thing that we’ve all the time recognized is that Tyler’s a visionary. He is excellent at huge image, superb at huge targets. And I don’t know if it was my upbringing or what, however I’m a right here and now black and white relative pessimist. What that usually-
Ashley:
I can’t even get previous this week. It’s like, right here’s what I have to do proper now for the enterprise. That’s not like-
Zosia:
I don’t know. And so us doing that, the imaginative and prescient purpose setting was actual arduous for me. Nonetheless, it’s fluffy within the background, however so I’ve all the time been the one which’s like, “Okay, what payments are due now? How can we make an influence now?” And from my final job, proper earlier than BP, I had this phenomenal COO. I had seemed as much as him for a lot of, a few years, and he was simply actually good at what he did. And he helped these day-to-day operations. He helps worker administration, made certain that contracts have been good, made certain that nothing was actually falling by the cracks, and was the direct liaison to the CEO. And so initially I used to be simply going to possibly be… And naturally titles or titles, on the finish of the day, we titled myself the COO.
I’m an operations, actually, I simply am supporting the expansion of the enterprise. And so what I do everyday now’s make sure that the system has been introduced up financially to make sure that we perceive the place all of our cash is forecasting, the place all of our cash goes. We are able to convey up the fractional CFO in a minute.
Ashley:
Nicely, let me ask you one thing there with the expansion of the cash. Is that trying on the complete image of, “Okay, right here’s how our enterprise is doing financially, but in addition right here’s the cash we pull out of the enterprise, pay ourselves, right here’s the place our private spending investments issues are too.” Is that-
Zosia:
Sure.
Ashley:
… close to the entire realm of that?
Zosia:
I run principally each companies, so our actual property enterprise and our P&L and numbers that means. And ensuring that hey, funds are coming by. We do the whole lot by Airbnb. It simply makes my life an entire lot simpler. I simply see funds coming by, automated funds going out, after which we’ve got the online income on the backside of all of that. After which we’ve got our P&L for the enterprise the place we’ve got all of our salaries, all of our info, and actually it’s like controllable prices, non controllables, issues like that. After which our quantity on the backside. We now have an incredible CPA who has talked us out of each getting full up bone salaries from our firm, so we do extra distributions. It’s understanding all the ways in which each tax-wise, private residing smart, how we’re going to reside from each the true property enterprise to the enterprise enterprise on ourselves.
And actually proper now we’re taking very minimal salaries from the enterprise as a result of we’re on this development mode and we’ve got the flexibility to do it. Some individuals would say, “That’s a nasty deal. It’s worthwhile to guess on yourselves and pay yourselves extra.” However we actually wish to preserve the enterprise creating wealth for now. After which if my forecast is right, we’ll be capable of take a pleasant bonus on the finish of the 12 months, or we’ll simply reinvest it into itself. I’m not making an attempt to bleed the enterprise proper now. And that’s what’s our major focus.
Tony:
Zosia, I’m so glad you introduced that up and I wish to pause on that for a second as a result of it’s within the conventional world of enterprise, that’s what most house owners do. However on the earth of actual property investing, it appears bizarre that you just’re not taking your entire cashflow from your online business instantly. You have a look at startup founders, they nearly by no means pay themselves something. And so they’re taking each single attainable penny that they’ll and dumping it again into the enterprise as a result of they know that if I sacrificed a little bit bit right now and I proceed to do this for an prolonged time period, now the enterprise begins to turn out to be this self-fulfilling factor the place it’s rising and there’s this momentum.
Zosia:
Completely.
Tony:
And it grows past what it ever would’ve needed to begin taking an even bigger wage initially. We do the identical factor. We take a really small quantity out of our actual property enterprise, even our media firms, a really small quantity. And we reinvest as a lot as we will. I get sick typically excited about how a lot I pay in payroll to different individuals.
Zosia:
Payroll, payroll taxes, workman comp insur… Our workman comp insurance coverage this 12 months alone was like $13,000 only for the 12 months of workman comp-
Tony:
Isn’t that loopy?
Zosia:
… for 3 workers. Insane. We talked on that earlier than.
Ashley:
In my expertise, mine was truly very completely different once I began actual property investing, I bled that rental earnings and I used it to repay all of my debt.
Zosia:
Which is nice.
Ashley:
My pupil loans, my automobiles, farm gear after which after that, I’ve barely touched it since.
Tony:
However see, even then, there was a goal.
Zosia:
You have been enjoying straight.
Ashley:
However nonetheless it was like… I wouldn’t suggest doing that as a result of I didn’t actually have a ton of reserves beginning out as a result of I used to be actually taking each greenback I had. I had my Dave Ramsey snowball impact ahead as to, right here’s how a lot I can add from every property every time. However I might need bled it a little bit bit an excessive amount of.
Zosia:
However now it’s paid off. And I believe that-
Ashley:
Oh yeah, which is nice.
Tony:
Okay, so sorry, again to your function. I turned the place we left, sorry, I triggered one thing.
Zosia:
No, so I’m actually engaged on operations on the day-today. Working with our venture supervisor and our superintendent nearly each day. We’ve carried out a few platforms that basically assist us keep organized.
Ashley:
Nicely, let me ask you a query on that so far as, okay, so the fellows are building guys, okay, arms on. How has it been getting them to implement completely different programs, processes, software program? That’s one thing that I’m like for the property administration firm, getting distributors like an equipment retailer. It’s a mother and pop equipment retailer and it’s like, “We now have this software program, we’ll simply e mail you. We now have a piece order, right here’s what we want. You name the tenant instantly.” They’re like, “No, no, no, no. We simply need Darryl to name us. Simply have him name us.” And it’s identical to, “Okay.”
Zosia:
Please use my system.
Ashley:
How has that been by your crew, implementing the cease door and getting them to take… Right here you go. You bought to take pictures and all these things.
Zosia:
It’s a work in progress. I believe that it’s… We simply had a name yesterday truly with our crew of, our subsequent degree 10 on Tuesday. Every of them has to-
Ashley:
Clarify actual fast what a degree 10 is.
Zosia:
Oh, yeah. Degree 10 is simply our enterprise assembly, we run, we’re making an attempt to. I’m in all probability not 100%, however working the entrepreneurial working system for our enterprise the place we set rocks. After which we’ve got our degree 10 conferences, which is simply an summary of the place our enterprise is at within the present second. However we’ve got it each single Tuesday at 10:00 AM to speak by excellent news the place we’re at with our tasks, our quarterly rocks, after which determine points, determine and remedy. We’re actually working in direction of maintaining that consistency, as a result of it simply retains us all on the identical degree enjoying area. However on that decision, we realized that, hey, there’s been some lapses in some programs the place I’ve carried out them. And that’s sort of the identical factor because the partner giving recommendation. Typically it must be individuals’s concepts in an effort to actually get full buy-in, however typically some workers simply don’t assume that means, which is ok. How do you make issues nearly their thought and hand them one thing that seems like their thought, however then they really feel extra apt to reply and take it on.
Ashley:
As an alternative of it being like, “Right here’s extra work that I’ve to do.”
Zosia:
Extra work that I’ve to do or something. We’re making an attempt to make issues simpler for them. And I believe nearly letting them hearken to how a lot Rachel liked the each day logs. And since we’re getting each day logs possibly each different day or each third day as a substitute of the time period each day. And once more, we’re working such small tasks, however we wish to scale this enterprise. We’re a seven determine enterprise proper now, however we wish to proceed to develop that. We wish to double or triple our earnings each single 12 months. And the one means we’re going to do this efficiently is to have nice programs and processes and be you clear.
Ashley:
And for those who let one thing slide now to each third day, then it’s such as you’re scaling, you’re rising. And it’s like, it’s arduous to return and say, no, we do that every single day. And because the enterprise proprietor, it’s very simple to let that slide as a result of it’s like, it’s not an enormous deal now I don’t wish to desire a confrontation.
Zosia:
And that’s the dialog that we frequently have with them is, “Hey, this isn’t about right now or tomorrow, that is about subsequent 12 months. Or whenever you get an worker beneath you. It’s how are we going to coach this or coach this or educate this?” And I believe that’s the great factor about my background was in individuals, coaching growth and implementing programs, so it’s helped. And I believe one factor that our crew is bringing to our subsequent assembly are three issues that they might change tomorrow that will make their jobs simpler. And whether or not or not I’m going to have the ability to say, “Yep, no extra X, Y, and Z since you assume it’s going to make your job simpler.” However I can a minimum of perceive the place they’re coming from and what are the roadblocks or what do they assume goes to make their lives simpler. And in order that means we will attempt to implement one thing that they’re extra purchased into. Now, we have-
Ashley:
That’s such an amazing thought, is asking that query.
Zosia:
I believe it’s simply essential to get your crew’s perception. Now there’s other ways to guide a crew. There’s other ways to guide it that hey, you might be only a dictatorship and inform individuals what to do. You generally is a little bit extra easygoing on the bottom and simply say, “Hey, we’re simply working a enterprise.” However we’ve got very distinct targets for this enterprise and we don’t wish to take any possibilities proper now on taking 10 steps again from what we’ve created within the right here and now. I believe it’s about creating these programs and getting these issues going, which is a giant a part of my job, going again to the query.
Tony:
Let me share two issues, Ash, as a result of we’ve struggled a little bit bit with adoption and system applied sciences, et cetera. And I may give two examples of various methods we did it. In our cleansing firm and Joshua Tree, we instituted new software program. And as a part of that software program, very related cleaners needed to take pictures, a variety of pictures. It’s a variety of pictures of the pantry displaying that it’s clear, of the fridge.
Ashley:
When Sue was speaking about that, that’s the precise factor I used to be considering of.
Zosia:
Sure.
Ashley:
As a result of I used to be like, there’s no means my cleaners would do this. And that’s the place it goes again to, however implementing it.
Tony:
Right here’s how we set it up. First we educated them, we stated Airbnb has modified the requirements for what a 5 star clear appears like. And we actually confirmed them the screens within Airbnb the place for those who get 4 stars, it’s very clear. And now to get 5 stars, you must be extraordinarily clear. They perceive that the bar has been raised. We modified their fee construction, so that they get bonuses if that they had 5 stars. Now they’re incentivized to guarantee that they’re doing a greater job. And there’s additionally a penalty. In the event that they get a number of dangerous evaluations, they’re docked pay. Now there’s this monetary incentive. After which we additionally inform them, “Hey guys, the opposite motive that we’ve got the photograph is as a result of typically visitors do lie.” They’ll examine right into a property and so they’ll simply say issues, attempt to get a reduction.
And now we will say, look, if we’ve got a photograph, timestamped photograph each day of what the property seemed like earlier than the visitor checks in, now we’ve got proof to say that it wasn’t on you as a cleaner. And this actually simply occurred yesterday. I obtained a message from certainly one of my VAs that stated, a visitor checked in and stated, “Hey, the new tub’s soiled.” And the message got here later within the day, so there’s an opportunity they might have used it. My VA introduced up the photograph glowing clear scorching tub earlier than the visitors obtained there. Now we all know it wasn’t as a result of our cleaners did one thing improper, it was one thing with the visitors. That was one instance. There was a monetary incentive. There was-
Ashley:
How did you deal with that? Did you go along with the shoppers all the time proper and do one thing?
Tony:
Hey, we’ll ship them the photograph. We’ll say, “Oh my gosh, it’s so unusual. Right here’s what it seemed like earlier than you checked in. We’re not likely certain what may have occurred. Is it attainable somebody may have used it?” I don’t know what their response was, however that’s normally how we reply to one thing like that.
Zosia:
That’s nice.
Tony:
After which the opposite factor that we did… And that is truly for our teaching packages. We now have gross sales reps in our teaching firm and we’ve got software program that we have to use within it, they’re simply to ensure we’re monitoring the whole lot. And our gross sales reps, once they have calls with potential college students, they’re imagined to mark the decision. Did this individual truly present up? In the event that they present up, did they be part of or did they not be part of? As a result of we will’t inform, are we doing a very good job if we will’t monitor these issues?
And our gross sales reps have been doing a very dangerous job of doing that. We made a change to the place for those who shut a sale, if somebody joins this system throughout your teaching name, nevertheless it’s not marked within the system, you’re not going to receives a commission for it. The system is a single supply of fact. For those who ship an bill and we pull up the system and it’s not in there, then it doesn’t exist. 100% compliance as quickly as that occurs. It’s such as you obtained to search out other ways, I believe, to inspire individuals to get them on board.
Zosia:
I believe it’s so essential to start out with why, with something that you just do, for those who clarify why that you just’re doing one thing. And I believe that that’s actually what we’ve accomplished as a enterprise. It’s saying, “Hey, why do we want a COO? Why do we have to convey up a fractional CFO? Why do we have to rent Amanda Hahn as a CPA?” Why do we have to have all of this stuff and perceive the why down the street? And I believe it actually helps get individuals a little bit bit extra purchased in in the event that they get purchased in and wish to develop with the crew. And that’s actually what Tyler and I try to construct an empire right here. I believe so are you and so are you. And I believe that that’s what we’re doing is we’re not simply going to be BRRRR buyers ceaselessly. We’re going to be individuals who run companies. And I believe that that’s actually the place the worth lies in creating programs.
Tony:
Can we speak a little bit bit concerning the fractional CFO? What’s that? What does the profit? Simply stroll us by what that’s.
Zosia:
It’s humorous truly. I hadn’t heard about fractional executives till I labored at BiggerPockets and so they had a few fractional execs. And actually what it’s is when an organization of a sure dimension won’t have the cash or sources or have to convey on anyone in sure roles full-time. One thing that Tyler and I’ve accomplished is we’ve constructed out an organizational chart for the place we’re presently, the place we should be in all probability in a few 12 months. After which future tense, what do we want and the place are we going to be huge image? Large image, we’ll have all this in-house. We’ll have a CFO, we’ll have anyone that does expertise, we’ll have somebody that does advertising and marketing, issues like that. However for the truth that we’re a four-person mighty crew with subcontractors, it didn’t make sense for us financially to convey on a monetary individual.
We truly discovered anyone within the community that ran a building firm that extremely really useful their fractional CFO. And what that’s is we pay him a month-to-month payment. I meet with him weekly, if not biweekly, if there’s one thing else developing. He’s additionally in a position to meet with our crew about accounting processes or issues which are happening. And he actually challenged me to know the funds greater than I ever had. Fortunately with my expertise in eating places, I had a very good understanding of a revenue and loss assertion. I all the time knew about these as a result of in eating places, the whole lot is on the underside line, and that’s the way you make all of your cash. And fortuitously with our rental portfolio, I’d been actually good at monitoring numbers and the whole lot, however not likely for Tyler’s enterprise. And Tyler actually, the best way he ran his enterprise beforehand, which was not improper, nevertheless it was, “Hey, I’ve a number of financial institution accounts for every job. I’m going to run it by. Something that’s left over I get.”
And that is nice. And that labored very well when it was simply him. As soon as we began having extra overhead, extra payroll, insurances, vehicle prices, paying for different issues, it simply began getting a little bit messy. And so what this fractional CFO does is basically simply encourages me to know, to forecast numbers, guarantee that we’re staying price range versus precise. We do stories and reevaluation on the finish of each month to know the place have been we over, have been we beneath. Why have been we lacking $42,000 this month? Oh, it’s as a result of we needed to pause due to cupboards, which signifies that that cash is now going to get allotted to June, which suggests we’re going to have a heavier month, which signifies that, hey, possibly we will tackle an additional job or not, or put extra money into a special a part of the enterprise that we’ve been holding off on like advertising and marketing.
And so it simply actually permits us to see greater image on it. And he’s only a enterprise coach. He’s accomplished quite a bit. I extremely suggest that on issues that you just’re not 100% snug with or 100% educated, rent anyone that’s. And identical factor with the CPA. On the finish of the day, Amanda Hahn’s superb. And she or he wrote two superb books for BiggerPockets. However I don’t have time to learn these and really turn out to be an accountant-
Tony:
Implement it.
Zosia:
… and implement them. Whereas us hiring her, we’re in a position to name her and say, “Hey, we’re about to purchase a home. Is that cool or not?” Or, “What ought to we take into consideration?” Or for the enterprise smart, “Hey, what ought to we be paying ourselves?” “Oh, nicely, you wish to fear about your payroll taxes? Don’t pay additional to these, get it by distributions.” And I’m not a authorized recommendation, that is no authorized recommendation, however that’s simply what she informed us to do. And I believe that educating myself with nice individuals round, I believe that I’ll preserve them on. There’s some those that say, “Hey, use these mentors or use these fractional individuals that you just rent for a short time after which study it your self.” However I don’t have time for that, so I’m going to maintain them on till we get to a spot within the enterprise the place we may rent on full-time.
Tony:
Rent them full-time. I really like that. If you put money into sensible advisors, they’re value 10X what you pay them.
Zosia:
Oh, completely.
Tony:
You rent a very good CPA, they’re going to make you 10, 20X what you pay them.
Zosia:
Completely.
Tony:
And I knew that with Amanda. And it’s humorous as a result of I truly talked… We talked about this earlier than, however I talked to your fractional CFO. And I didn’t wish to decide to paying another person for one more service. However trying again and saying it out loud, it’s like, I do know I’m doing myself a disservice as a result of each time I’ve accomplished that, they’ve earned extra again than what I’m spending to retain their companies. You guys discovered one thing from me right now additionally. I obtained classes to study.
Zosia:
I find it irresistible.
Ashley:
Nicely, let’s go into our rookie examination.
Zosia:
Okay.
Ashley:
Our first query is, what’s one actionable merchandise that rookie listeners ought to do right now?
Zosia:
I believe after what we have been simply speaking about is work out what you might be good at and work out what you’re not good at or what you don’t wish to study. And go both to your community, rent an advisor, rent a coach, rent anyone fractional. I believe that oftentimes it feels scary to start with to spend cash to earn a living, however that’s undoubtedly an outdated saying, and it’s a saying for a motive. I believe that you must spend cash to earn a living oftentimes. And discovering the best individual which you can add into your life will make an enormous distinction on the expansion and trajectory of your online business. Actual property or an out of doors enterprise as nicely.
Tony:
I really like that. Query quantity two, what’s one software program app system or software that you just use in your online business?
Zosia:
Google.
Tony:
Google?
Zosia:
Google Drive. Google Drive is my savior. I really like Google Drive. I believe that it’s really easy to arrange. We now have a giant hub for all of our info. We add all of our… We now have per venture, we’ve got invoices, we’ve got specs, we’ve got the whole lot that we want in there. And I believe it integrates actually properly with Slack. And so anytime I create something, it simply goes forwards and backwards. I used to be going to say JobTread, however that’s actually building primarily based, so it doesn’t actually have an effect on lots of people. However I believe for those who use Google Drive the best means, it may be actually transformative with the enterprise.
Tony:
Are you utilizing Monday in any respect or are you utilizing any sort of venture administration software program?
Zosia:
We’re sort of utilizing Asana.
Tony:
Okay.
Zosia:
I believe one factor with, again to your query about including on an excessive amount of and programs and processes. I’ve used Asana in my previous. I liked it. And it was nearly an excessive amount of for this crew , so we wanted to get again to the fundamentals of let’s simply get issues organized after which ship out reminders through simply emails, or not emails, however in your calendar. And I believe slowly we are going to get again to Asana as a result of I believe it is crucial, however a variety of our venture administration occurs by JobTread. I believe that it was… We’d like it for the interior parts of our enterprise, however not essentially for jobs. And proper now we’re so centered on jobs that the interior focus might be grassroots proper now. And we’ll get to that I believe subsequent.
Ashley:
Okay, cool. And you then already shared this, however the place do you see your self in 5 years?
Zosia:
Enjoying on a seaside with my cute little boys, together with my husband and my cute little boy. And I believe that that’s simply watching the sundown and figuring out that life is okay and never having a guidelines or to-do on the again of my head, I believe I’d actually recognize that.
Ashley:
That’s superior. Nicely, thanks a lot for becoming a member of us. Are you able to let everybody know the place they’ll attain out to you and discover out some extra details about you?
Zosia:
I’m on Instagram @zosiamadden after which actually a variety of our story is shared on my husband’s Instagram, which is @tylermadden. However I believe that’s actually the place… We now have a web site, we’re redoing it proper now. I believe comply with us on Instagram for probably the most up-to-date.
Tony:
Spell Zosia for folk in aren’t good with that stuff?
Zosia:
Oh, yeah. Z-O-S-I-A. Madden, M-A-D-D-E-N.
Tony:
Excellent.
Ashley:
You have been superior. Thanks a lot for becoming a member of us reside right here in Denver. We actually recognize it. I’m Ashley @wealthfromrentals and he’s-
Tony:
Tony J. Robinson @tonyjrobinson.
Ashley:
Thanks guys a lot for becoming a member of us and we’ll be again on Saturday with a rookie reply.
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