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Under, learn the total transcript from the June 21 listening to of the Home choose committee investigating the Jan. 6 Capitol assault. The transcript was produced by CQ.
BENNIE THOMPSON:
The Choose Committee to research the January sixth assault on the US Capitol will likely be so as. With out objection, the chair is permitted to declare the committee in recess at any level. Pursuant to Home Deposition Authority Regulation 10, the chair proclaims the committee’s approval to launch the deposition materials introduced throughout at the moment’s listening to.
Good afternoon. In our final listening to, we advised a narrative of a scheme pushed by Donald Trump to stress former Vice President Mike Pence to illegally overturn the election outcomes. We confirmed that when the stress marketing campaign failed and Mike Pence fulfilled his constitutional obligation, Donald Trump turned a violent mob free on him. We confirmed that the mob got here inside roughly 40 toes of the vp. At present we’ll present that what occurred to Mike Pence wasn’t an remoted a part of Donald Trump’s scheme to overturn the election. Actually, pressuring public servants into betraying their oath was a elementary a part of the playbook, and a handful of election officers in a number of key states stood between Donald Trump and the upending of American democracy.
As we meet once more at the moment, it is necessary to recollect, after we rely the votes for president, we rely the votes state by state. For essentially the most half, the candidates who win the favored vote in a state wins all of the state’s Electoral Faculty votes, and whoever wins a majority of the Electoral Faculty votes wins the presidency. So, when Donald Trump tried to overturn the election outcomes, he centered on just some states. He wished officers on the native and state degree to say the vote was tainted by widespread fraud and throw out the outcomes despite the fact that, as we confirmed final week, there wasn’t any voter fraud that would have overturn the election outcomes. And like Mike Pence, these public servants would not go together with Donald Trump’s scheme.
And once they would not embrace the large lie and substitute the need of the voters with Donald Trump’s will to stay in energy, Donald Trump labored to make sure they’d face the results; threats to individuals’s livelihood and lives, threats of violence that Donald Trump knew about and amplified.
And in our different hearings, we will not simply look backward at what occurred in late 2020 and in early 2021 as a result of the hazard hadn’t gone away. Our democracy endured a mighty take a look at on January sixth and within the days earlier than. We see our establishments held, however what does that actually imply? Democratic establishments aren’t abstractions or concepts. playbook, and a handful of election officers in a number of key states stood between Donald Trump and the upending of American democracy.
As we meet once more at the moment, it is necessary to recollect, after we rely the votes for president, we rely the votes state by state. For essentially the most half, the candidates who win the favored vote in a state wins all of the state’s Electoral Faculty votes, and whoever wins a majority of the Electoral Faculty votes wins the presidency.
So, when Donald Trump tried to overturn the election outcomes, he centered on just some states. He wished officers on the native and state degree to say the vote was tainted by widespread fraud and throw out the outcomes despite the fact that, as we confirmed final week, there wasn’t any voter fraud that would have overturn the election outcomes.
And like Mike Pence, these public servants would not go together with Donald Trump’s scheme. And
once they would not embrace the large lie and substitute the need of the voters with Donald Trump’s will to stay in energy, Donald Trump labored to make sure they’d face the results; threats to individuals’s livelihood and lives, threats of violence that Donald Trump knew about and amplified. And in our different hearings, we will not simply look backward at what occurred in late 2020 and in early 2021 as a result of the hazard hadn’t gone away. Our democracy endured a mighty take a look at on January sixth and within the days earlier than. We see our establishments held, however what does that actually imply? Democratic establishments aren’t abstractions or concepts. They’re native officers who oversee elections, secretaries of state, individuals in whom we positioned our belief that they will perform their duties. However what if they do not?
Two weeks in the past, New Mexico held its major elections. One county fee refused to certify the outcomes, citing imprecise, unsupported claims coping with Dominion voting machines. The courtroom stepped in, saying New Mexico regulation required the fee to certify the outcomes. Two of the three members of the fee lastly relented. One nonetheless refused, saying his vote “Is not based mostly on any proof. It isn’t based mostly on any info. It is solely based mostly on my intestine feeling and my very own instinct, and that is all I want.” By the best way, a couple of months in the past this county commissioner was discovered responsible of illegally getting into the Capitol grounds on January sixth. This story reminds us of some issues.
First, as we have proven in our earlier hearings, claims that widespread voter fraud tainted the 2020 presidential election have all the time been a lie. Donald Trump knew they have been a lie and he saved amplifying them anyway. Every part we describe at the moment, the relentless, harmful stress marketing campaign on state and native officers, was all based mostly on a lie. Donald Trump knew it. He did it anyway. Second, the lie hasn’t gone away. It is corrupting our democratic establishments. Individuals who consider that lie at the moment are in search of positions of public belief. And as seen in New Mexico, their oath to be — to the individuals they serve will take a again seat to their dedication to the large lie. If that occurs, who will ensure our establishments do not break beneath the stress? We can’t have shut calls. We’ll have a disaster.
My distinguished colleague from California, Mr. Schiff, will current a lot of the Choose Committee’s findings on this matter. First, I am happy to acknowledge our vice chair, Ms. Cheney, of Wyoming for any opening assertion she’d care to supply.
LIZ CHENEY:
Thanks very a lot, Mr. Chairman. At present we are going to start inspecting President Trump’s effort to overturn the election by exerting stress on state officers and state legislatures. Donald Trump had a direct and private position on this effort, as did Rudy Giuliani, as did John Eastman. In different phrases, the identical individuals who have been trying to stress Vice President Mike Pence to reject electoral votes illegally have been additionally concurrently working to reverse the result of the 2020 election on the state degree. Every of those efforts to overturn the election is independently critical. Every deserves consideration, each by Congress and by our Division of Justice. However as a federal courtroom has already indicated, these efforts have been additionally a part of a broader plan, and all of this was performed in preparation for January sixth. I might be aware two factors for explicit focus at the moment.
First, at the moment you’ll hear about calls made by President Trump to officers of Georgia and different states. As you pay attention to those tapes, take into account what Donald Trump already knew on the time he was making these calls. He had been advised again and again that his stolen election allegations have been nonsense. For instance, that is what former Legal professional Common Invoice Barr stated to President Trump about allegations in Georgia.
[Begin videotape]
WILLIAM BARR:
We took a glance — a tough take a look at this ourselves. And based mostly on our assessment of it, together with the interviews of the important thing witnesses, the Fulton County allegations have been — had no advantage. They’re — the — the ballots beneath the desk have been legit ball — ballots. They weren’t in a suitcase. That they had been pre-opened for ultimately feeding into the machine, all of the stuff in regards to the water leak and that there was some subterfuge concerned. We felt there was some confusion, however — however there was no proof of a subterfuge to create a possibility to feed issues into the rely. And so, we did not see any proof of — of fraud within the — within the Fulton County episode.
[End videotape]
LIZ CHENEY: And Appearing Deputy Legal professional Common Richard Donoghue advised Donald Trump this.
[Begin videotape]
RICHARD DONOGHUE:
And I stated one thing to the impact of, sir, we have performed dozens of investigations, a whole bunch of interviews. The main allegations will not be supported by the proof developed. [End videotape]
LIZ CHENEY:
Mr. Trump was advised by his personal advisers that he had no foundation for his stolen election claims, but he continued to stress state officers to alter the election outcomes. Second, you’ll hear about plenty of threats and efforts to stress state officers to reverse the election end result. One in all our witnesses at the moment, Gabriel Sterling, explicitly warned President Trump about potential violence on December 1st, 2020, greater than a month earlier than January sixth. You will note excerpts from that video repeatedly at the moment.
[Begin Videotape]
GABRIEL STERLING:
It has all gone to bar. All of it. Joe diGenova [ph] at the moment requested for Chris Krebs, a patriot who ran CISA, to be shot. A 20 one thing tech in Gwinnett County at the moment has dying threats and a noose put out saying he must be hung for treason as a result of he was transferring a report on batches from an EMS to a county laptop, so he may learn it. It has to cease. Mr. President, you haven’t condemned these actions or this language. Senators, you haven’t condemned this language or these actions. This has to cease. We’d like you to step up. And in the event you’re gonna take a place of management, present some. My boss, Secretary Raffensperger, his tackle is on the market. They’ve individuals doing caravans in entrance of their home. They’ve had individuals come on to their property. It has to cease. That is elections. That is the spine of democracy. And all of you who haven’t stated a rattling phrase are complicit on this.
[End Videotape]
LIZ CHENEY:
The purpose is that this, Donald Trump didn’t care in regards to the threats of violence. He didn’t condemn them. He made no effort to cease them. He went ahead together with his pretend allegations anyway. Yet another level, I might urge all of these watching at the moment to concentrate on the proof the committee will current. Do not be distracted by politics. That is critical. We can’t let America turn out to be a nation of conspiracy theories and thug violence. Lastly, I wish to thank our witnesses at the moment for all your service to our nation. At present, all of America will hear in regards to the selfless actions of those women and men who acted honorably to uphold the regulation, shield our freedom, and protect our Structure. At present, Mr. Chairman, we are going to all see an instance of what actually makes America nice. Thanks. Mr. Chairman, I yield again.
BENNIE THOMPSON:
With out objection, the Chair acknowledges the gentleman from California, Mr. Schiff, for a gap assertion.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Thanks, Mr. Chairman and Madam Vice Chair. On November third, 2020, Donald Trump ran for eelection to the workplace of the presidency and he misplaced. His opponent, Joe Biden, completed forward in the important thing battleground states of Arizona, Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Georgia, and elsewhere. Nonetheless, and for the primary time in historical past, the shedding Presidential candidate fought to carry on to energy. As we’ve seen in earlier hearings, he did so by means of quite a lot of means. On Election Day, he sought to cease the counting of the vote realizing that the hundreds of thousands of absentee ballots elections officers could be relying on Election Day and thereafter would run strongly towards him and ship a victory to Joe Biden.
Subsequent, and when he couldn’t cease the counting, he tried to cease state legislatures and governors from certifying the outcomes of the election. He went to courtroom and filed dozens of frivolous lawsuits making unsubstantiated claims of fraud. When that too failed, he mounted a stress marketing campaign directed at particular person state legislators to attempt to get them to return into session and both declare him the winner, decertify Joe Biden because the winner, or ship two slates of electors to Congress, one for Biden and one for him and stress Vice President Pence to decide on him because the winner. However the state legislatures would not go together with this scheme and neither would the Vice President.
Not one of the legislatures agreed to return within the particular session and declare him the winner. No legit state authority within the states Donald Trump misplaced would conform to appoint pretend Trump electors and ship them to Congress. However this did not cease the Trump marketing campaign both. They assembled teams of people in key battleground states and obtained them to name themselves electors, created phony certificates related to these pretend electors, after which transmitted these certificates to Washington and to the Congress to be counted throughout the joint session of Congress on January sixth. None of this labored, however in response to federal District Decide David Carter, former President Trump and others seemingly violated a number of federal legal guidelines by participating on this scheme, together with conspiracy to defraud the US.
You’ll hear proof of the previous President and his high adviser’s direct involvement in key parts of this plot, or what Decide Carter referred to as a coup, searching for a authorized concept. Or because the decide defined, “President Trump’s stress marketing campaign to cease the electoral rely didn’t finish with Vice President Pence. It focused each tier of federal and state elected officers. Convincing state legislatures”, he stated, “to certify competing electors was important to cease the rely and guarantee President Trump’s reelection.”
As we’ve seen in our prior hearings. Working by means of this scheme was an enormous lie that the election was plagued with huge fraud and someway stolen. You may bear in mind what President — the President’s personal legal professional normal, Invoice Barr stated, he advised the President about these claims of huge fraud affecting the result of the election.
[Begin Videotape]
WILLIAM BARR:
And I advised him that the stuff that his individuals have been shoveling out to the general public or bull — was bullshit. I imply that the claims of fraud have been bullshit.
[End Videotape]
ADAM SCHIFF:
The President’s lie was and is a harmful most cancers on the physique politic. Should you can persuade Individuals that they can not belief their very own elections, that any time they lose it’s someway illegitimate, then what’s left however violence to find out who ought to govern. This brings us to the main focus of at the moment’s listening to. When state elections officers refused to cease the rely, Donald Trump and his marketing campaign tried to place stress on them. When state government officers refused to certify him the winner of states he misplaced, he utilized extra stress. When state legislators refused to return into session and appoint Trump electors, he amped up the stress but once more. Anybody who obtained in the best way of Donald Trump’s continued maintain on energy after he misplaced the election was the topic of a harmful and escalating marketing campaign of stress.
This stress marketing campaign introduced indignant telephone calls and texts, armed protests, intimidation, and all too typically threats of violence and dying. State legislators have been singled out. So too have been statewide elections officers. Even native elections staff diligently doing their jobs have been accused of being criminals and had their lives turned the wrong way up. As we are going to present, the President’s supporters heard the previous President’s claims of fraud and the false allegations he made towards state and native officers as a name to motion.
[Begin Videotape]
UNKNOWN:
Cease the steal. Cease the steal. Cease the steal. [inaudible] You are a menace to democracy. [inaudible] You are a menace to free and trustworthy election. We love America. We love our rights and our freedom. [inaudible] You’re a tyrant, you’re a felon and you could flip your self into authorities instantly. [inaudible]
JOCELYN BENSON:
After which about 45 minutes later, we began to listen to the noises exterior my residence. And that is why my abdomen sank. And I assumed, it is me. And there — after which it is simply we do not know what’s gonna — the uncertainty of that was what was the worry. Are they coming with weapons? Are they going to assault my Home? I am in right here with my child. You understand, I am making an attempt to place him to mattress. And so it was — yeah, that was the scariest second simply not realizing what was going to occur.
[End Videotape]
ADAM SCHIFF:
This stress marketing campaign towards state and native officers spanned quite a few contested states as you will note on this video produced by the Choose Committee.
[Begin Videotape]
JOSH ROSELMAN:
My identify is Josh Roselman. I am an investigative counsel for the Home Choose Committee to research the January sixth assault on the US Capitol. Starting in late November 2020, the President and his legal professionals began showing earlier than state legislators urging them to present their electoral votes to Trump despite the fact that he misplaced the favored vote.
RUDY GIULIANI:
I symbolize President Trump together with Jenna Ellis. And that is our fourth or fifth listening to.
DONALD TRUMP:
This election needs to be circled as a result of we gained Pennsylvania by quite a bit and we gained all of those swing states by quite a bit.
JOSH ROSELMAN:
This was a method with each sensible and authorized parts. The Choose Committee has obtained an electronic mail from simply two days after the election through which a Trump marketing campaign lawyer named Cleta Mitchell requested one other Trump lawyer, John Eastman, to write down a memo justifying the concept.
UNKNOWN:
When do you bear in mind this developing as an choice within the post-election interval for the primary time?
CLETA MITCHELL:
Proper after the election. It might need been earlier than the election.
JOSH ROSELMAN:
Eastman ready a memo trying to justify this technique, which was circulated to the Trump White Home, Rudy Giuliani’s authorized staff, and state legislators across the nation. And he appeared earlier than the Georgia state legislature to advocate for it publicly.
JOHN EASTMAN:
She may additionally do what the Florida legislature was ready to do, which is to undertake a slate of electors yourselves. And once you add within the mixture of the numerous statistical anomalies in sworn [affidavits] and video proof of outright election fraud, I do not suppose it is simply your authority to try this. However fairly frankly, I feel you have got an obligation to try this, to guard the integrity of — of the election right here in Georgia.
JOSH ROSELMAN:
However Republican officers in a number of states launched public statements recognizing that President Trump’s proposal was illegal. As an illustration, Georgia Governor Brian Kemp referred to as the proposal unconstitutional. Whereas Arizona Home Speaker Rusty Bowers wrote that the concept would undermine the rule of regulation. The stress marketing campaign to get state legislators to go together with the scheme intensified when President Trump invited delegations from Michigan and Pennsylvania to the White Home.
UNKNOWN:
Both you or Speaker Chatfield, did you make the purpose to the President that you weren’t going to do something that violated Michigan regulation?
MIKE SHIRKEY:
I consider we did. Whether or not or not was these precise phrases or not, we’re — I feel the phrases that I might have extra seemingly used is we’re going to comply with the regulation.
JOSH ROSELMAN:
Nonetheless, the stress continued. The subsequent day President Trump tweeted quote, “Hopefully the courts and or legislatures may have the braveness to do what needs to be performed to take care of the integrity of our elections and the US of America itself. The world is watching.” He posted a number of messages on Fb, itemizing the contact info for state officers and urging his supporters to contact them to cite, “Demand a vote on decertification.” In a kind of posts, President Trump disclosed Mike Shirkey’s private telephone quantity to his hundreds of thousands of followers.
MIKE SHIRKEY:
All I bear in mind is receiving over simply shy of 4,000 textual content messages over a brief time period calling to take motion. It was a loud noise, loud constant cadence of, you already know, we hear that — that the Trump of us are calling and asking for modifications within the electors and also you guys can do that. Effectively, you know they have been — they have been believing issues that have been unfaithful.
JOSH ROSELMAN:
These efforts additionally concerned focused outreach to state legislators.
ANGELA MCCALLUM:
Hello, Consultant. My identify is Angela McCallum. I am calling from Trump marketing campaign headquarters in Washington DC. You do have the facility to reclaim your authority and ship a — a slate of electors that may help President Trump and Vice President Pence.
JOSH ROSELMAN:
From President Trump’s legal professionals and from Trump himself.
DONALD TRUMP:
And I’ve turn out to be pleasant with legislators that I did not know 4 weeks in the past.
JOSH ROSELMAN:
One other legislator, Pennsylvania Home Speaker Bryan Cutler, acquired every day voicemails from Trump’s legal professionals within the final week of November.
RUDY GUILIANI:
Mr. Speaker, that is Rudy Giuliani and Jenna Ellis. We’re calling you collectively as a result of we would like to debate clearly the election.
JENNA ELLIS:
Hi there, Mr. Speaker. That is Jenna Ellis and I am right here with Mayor Giuliani.
RUDY GIULIANI:
Hey, Bryan. It is Rudy. I actually have one thing necessary to name to your consideration that I feel actually modifications issues.
JOSH ROSELMAN:
Cutler felt that the outreach was inappropriate and requested his legal professionals to inform Rudy Giuliani to cease calling. However Giuliani continued to achieve out.
RUDY GIULIANI:
I perceive that you do not wish to discuss to me now. I simply wish to convey some info to your consideration and discuss to you as a fellow Republican.
JOSH ROSELMAN:
On December thirtieth Trump ally Steve Bannon introduced a protest at Cutler’s residence.
STEVE BANNON:
We’re getting on the highway and we’re happening to Cutler. We’ll begin going to workplaces. And if we’ve to we will go to houses and we will allow them to know what we take into consideration them.
BRYAN CUTLER:
There have been a number of protests. I truly do not bear in mind the precise quantity. There was no less than three, I feel, exterior of both my district workplace or my residence. And also you’re right, my son — my then 15 12 months outdated son was residence by himself for the primary one. All of my private info was doxxed on-line. It was my private electronic mail, my private cellphone, my residence telephone quantity. Actually, we needed to disconnect our residence telephone for about three days as a result of it could ring all hours of the evening and would replenish with messages.
UNKNOWN:
Bryan Cutler, we’re exterior. Clerks going through felony prices in Michigan. Ballot watchers denied entry in Pennsylvania —
JOSH ROSELMAN:
— These advertisements have been one other component within the effort. The Trump marketing campaign spent hundreds of thousands of {dollars} working advertisements on-line and on tv.
UNKNOWN:
The proof is overwhelming. Name your governor and legislators. Demand they examine the machines and listen to the proof.
JOSH ROSELMAN:
Public stress on state officers typically grew harmful within the lead as much as January sixth.
UNKNOWN:
Allow us to in. Allow us to in. Allow us to in. Particular session. Particular session. Particular session. We’ll mild the entire shit on fireplace.
NICK FUENTES:
What are we going to do? What are you able to and I do to a state legislator moreover kill him? Though, we must always not try this. I am not advising that, however I imply what else are you able to do? Proper?
UNKNOWN:
The punishment for treason is dying.
[End Videotape]
ADAM SCHIFF:
The state stress marketing campaign and the hazard it posed to state officers and to State Capitols across the nation was a harmful precursor to the violence we noticed on January sixth on the US Capitol. At present you’ll hear from Rusty Bowers, the Republican Speaker of the Arizona Home of Representatives. He’ll inform us about his conversations with the President, with Rudy Giuliani, and John Eastman, and what the President’s staff requested of him and the way his oath of workplace wouldn’t allow it. You’ll then hear from Brad Raffensperger, the Republican Secretary of state of Georgia who Trump directed to cite, “Discover 11,780 votes” that didn’t exist, however simply the precise variety of votes wanted to overhaul Joe Biden.
Additionally, you will hear from Gabriel Sterling, the Chief Working Officer — his Chief Working Officer, in regards to the spurious claims of fraud within the elections in Georgia and who, responding to a cascading set of threats to his elections staff, warned the President to cease, that somebody was going to get killed. And you’ll hear from Wandrea — Wandrea “Shaye” Moss, a former native elections employee in Fulton County, Georgia, about how the entire lies in regards to the election impacted the lives of actual individuals who administer our elections and nonetheless do. You’ll hear what they skilled when essentially the most highly effective man on this planet, the President of the US, sought to cling to energy after being voted out of workplace by the American individuals. The system held, however barely. And the system held as a result of individuals of braveness, Republicans and Democrats, just like the witnesses you’ll hear at the moment put their oath to the nation and structure above another consideration. They did their jobs as we should do ours. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. And I yield again.
BENNIE THOMPSON:
I now welcome our first panel of witnesses. We’re joined at the moment by a distinguished legislator from Arizona, Rusty Bowers, who’s a Republican Speaker of the Arizona Home of Representatives. Mr. Bower was first elected to the state legislature in 1993 and has served as Speaker since 2019. Welcome, Speaker Bowers. Brad Raffensperger is the twenty ninth Secretary of State of Georgia, serving on this position since 2019. As an elected official and a Republican, Secretary Raffensperger is answerable for supervising elections in Georgia and sustaining the state’s public information. Welcome, Mr. Secretary. Gabriel Sterling is the Chief Working Officer within the Georgia Secretary of State’s workplace.
Mr. Sterling was the statewide voting programs implementation supervisor for the 2020 election in Georgia, answerable for main the Secretary of State’s response to the COVID pandemic and rolling out modernized voting gear. I’ll swear in our witnesses. The witnesses will please stand and lift their proper hand. Do you swear or inform — type beneath the penalty of perjury that the testimony you are about to present is the reality, the entire reality, and nothing however the reality so assist you to God? Thanks. Please be seated.
Let the file mirror that the witnesses answered within the affirmative. Speaker Bowers, thanks for being with us at the moment. You are the Speaker of the Arizona Home and a self-described conservative Republican. You campaigned for President Trump and with him throughout the 2020 election. Is it honest to say that you simply wished Donald Trump to win a second time period in workplace? Please.
RUSTY BOWERS:
Sure, Sir. Thanks.
BENNIE THOMPSON:
And is it your understanding that President Biden was the winner of the favored vote in Arizona in 2020?
RUSTY BOWERS:
Sure, sir.
BENNIE THOMPSON:
Thanks. Pursuant to Part 5 C8 of Home Decision 503, the Chair acknowledges the gentleman from California, Mr. Schiff for questions.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Speaker Bowers, thanks for being with us at the moment. Earlier than we start with the questions that I’ve ready for you, I wished to ask you a few assertion that former President Trump issued which I acquired simply previous to the listening to. Have you ever had an opportunity to assessment that assertion?
RUSTY BOWERS:
I — my counsel referred to as from Arizona and browse it to me. Sure, Sir.
ADAM SCHIFF:
In that assertion — I will not learn it in its entirety — former President Trump begins by calling you a RINO, Republican in identify solely. He then references a dialog in November 2020 through which he claims that you simply advised him that the election was rigged and that he had gained Arizona. To cite the previous President, “Throughout the dialog he advised me the election was rigged and that I gained Arizona unquote.” Did you have got such a dialog with the President?
RUSTY BOWERS:
I did have a dialog with the President. That is actually is not it. However there are elements of it which can be true, however there are elements that aren’t, Sir.
ADAM SCHIFF:
And the half that I learn to you, is that false?
RUSTY BOWERS:
Anyplace, anybody, any time has stated that I stated the election was rigged, that might not be true.
ADAM SCHIFF:
And when the Pre — the previous President in his assertion at the moment claimed that you simply advised him that he gained Arizona, is that additionally false?
RUSTY BOWERS:
That can be false.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Mr. Bowers, I perceive that after the election — and I do not know whether or not that is the dialog the previous President is referring to — however after the election you acquired a telephone name from President Trump and Rudy Giuliani through which they mentioned the results of the Presidential election in Arizona. Should you would, inform us about that decision and whether or not the previous President or Mr. Giuliani raised allegations of election fraud.
RUSTY BOWERS:
Thanks. I — my spouse and I had returned from attending our church conferences. It was on a Sunday. And we have been nonetheless within the driveway. And I had acquired a name from a colleague telling me that the White Home was making an attempt to get in contact together with her and I. And that she stated please in the event you get a name, let’s attempt to take this collectively.
Instantly I noticed that the White Home on my Bluetooth was calling and I took the decision and was requested by the — I might presume the operator on the White Home if I might maintain for the President, which I did. And he — Mr. Giuliani got here on first, and niceties. Then Mr. Trump — President Trump – then President Trump got here on and we initiated a dialog.
ADAM SCHIFF:
And through that dialog did you ask Mr. Giu — Giuliani for proof of those allegations of fraud that he was making?
RUSTY BOWERS:
On a number of events, sure.
ADAM SCHIFF:
And once you requested him for proof of this fraud what did he say?
RUSTY BOWERS:
He stated that they did have proof. And I requested him, do you have got names? For instance, we’ve 200,000 unlawful immigrants, some giant quantity. 5 or 6,000 useless individuals, et cetera. And I stated, do you have got their names? Sure? Will you give them to me? Sure. The President interrupted and stated give the person what he wants, Rudy. And he stated I — I’ll. And that occurred on no less than two events, that interchange within the dialog.
ADAM SCHIFF:
So Mr. Giuliani was claiming within the name that there have been a whole bunch of hundreds of undocumented individuals and hundreds of useless individuals who had purportedly voted within the election?
RUSTY BOWERS:
Sure.
ADAM SCHIFF:
And also you requested him for proof of that.
RUSTY BOWERS:
I did.
ADAM SCHIFF:
And did he ever obtain — did you ever obtain from him that proof both throughout the name after the decision or to today?
RUSTY BOWERS:
By no means.
ADAM SCHIFF:
What was the ask throughout this name? He was making these allegations of fraud, however he had one thing or a few issues that they wished you to do. What have been these?
RUSTY BOWERS:
Those I bear in mind have been first the — that we’d maintain — that I might permit an official committee at — on the Capitol in order that they may hear this proof and that we may take motion thereafter. And I refused. I stated as much as that point the — the circus — I referred to as it a circus — had been brewing with plenty of demonstrations each on the counting middle, on the Capitol, and different locations.
And I did not wish to have that within the Home. I — I didn’t really feel that the proof granted in its absence merited a listening to. And I did not wish to be used as a pawn. If there was another want that the – that the committee listening to would fulfill. So, that was the primary ask, that we maintain an official committee listening to.
ADAM SCHIFF:
And what was his second ask?
RUSTY BOWERS:
I — I stated to what finish? To what finish the listening to? He stated, effectively, we’ve heard by an official excessive up within the Republican legislature that there’s a authorized concept or a authorized capacity in Arizona you could take away the — the electors of President Biden and exchange them. And we might — we wish to have the legit alternative by means of the committee to come back to that finish and — and take away that. And I stated that is — that is one thing I’ve — that is completely new to me. I’ve by no means heard of any such factor. And he pressed that time. And I stated, look, you might be asking me to do one thing that’s counter to my oath after I swore to the Structure to uphold it, and I additionally swore to the Structure and the legal guidelines of the state of Arizona.
And that is completely international as a — an concept or a concept to me, and I might by no means do something of such magnitude with out deep session with certified attorneys. And I stated I’ve obtained some good attorneys and I will provide you with their names, however you might be asking me to do one thing towards my oath, and I cannot break my oath. And I feel that was as much as that time.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Throughout the dialog — and also you heard, I feel, after we performed a snippet of Mr. Giuliani calling different state legislators and saying that he was calling as primarily a fellow Republican. Did he make the same enchantment to you, or convey up the truth that you shared a — the same celebration?
RUSTY BOWERS:
Whether or not it was in that decision or in a later assembly, he did convey that up greater than as soon as.
ADAM SCHIFF:
And the way — how would he convey that up?
RUSTY BOWERS:
He would say, aren’t all of us Republicans right here? I — I might suppose we’d get a greater reception. I imply, I might suppose you’ll pay attention somewhat extra open to my options, that we’re all Republicans.
ADAM SCHIFF:
And this — this proof that you simply requested him for that might justify this extraordinary step I feel you stated they by no means produced. Why did you’re feeling, both within the absence of that proof or with it, what they have been asking you to do would violate your oath to the Structure?
RUSTY BOWERS:
To start with, when the individuals — and in Arizona, I consider it — some 40-plus years earlier the legislature had established the style of electing our officers or the electors for the presidential race. As soon as it was given to the individuals as in Bush v Gore, illustrated by the Supreme Court docket, it turns into a elementary proper of the individuals. So, so far as I used to be involved, for somebody to ask me within the — I might name it a paucity. There was no – no proof being introduced of any energy.
Proof could be rumour proof. It is nonetheless proof, nevertheless it’s nonetheless rumour. However robust judicial high quality proof, something that might say to me you have got a doubt, deny your oath, I cannot try this. And on greater than — on multiple event all through all this, that has been introduced up. And it’s a tenet of my religion that the Structure is divinely impressed, of my most elementary foundational beliefs. And so, for me to try this as a result of any person simply requested me to is international to my very being. I — I cannot do it.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Throughout that dialog, Speaker Bowers, did you ask him if what he was proposing had ever been performed earlier than?
RUSTY BOWERS:
I did.
ADAM SCHIFF:
And what did he say?
RUSTY BOWERS:
He stated, effectively, I am not conversant in Arizona regulation or another legal guidelines, however I — I do not — I do not suppose so.
And that additionally was introduced up in different conversations, each with him and with John Eastman and others.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Speaker Bowers, I perceive {that a} week after that decision, Mr. Giuliani appeared with others related to President Trump’s effort to overturn the results of the election at a purported legislative listening to in a resort ballroom in Phoenix. Was this an official listening to of the state legislature?
RUSTY BOWERS:
It was not.
ADAM SCHIFF:
And — and why was it not an actual or official listening to of the legislature?
RUSTY BOWERS:
A legislator can maintain a gaggle assembly. You’ll be able to name it a listening to. However once they requested me to have an official listening to, we set up it by protocols, public discover, and so on. It is sometimes held on the Capitol, however does not must be. We will authorize a listening to off campus. And on this case, I had been requested on a number of events to permit a listening to. I had denied it, however stated you are free to carry a gathering, any assembly you need, to the one who requested, and which he in the end did. I feel he was somewhat pissed off, however he in the end did.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Now, this — this assembly was the identical day, I consider, that the governor of Arizona, Doug Ducey,
licensed Biden because the winner of the presidential election in Arizona. Did you meet with Mr. Giuliani and his associates whereas they have been in Phoenix someday after that purported legislative listening to on the resort?
RUSTY BOWERS:
Sure, I did, sir.
ADAM SCHIFF:
And at that assembly, did Mr. Giuliani increase any particular allegations of election fraud once more?
RUSTY BOWERS:
His preliminary feedback have been, once more, the litany of teams of unlawful people or individuals deceased, and so on. And he had introduced that up, and I wasn’t alone in that assembly. There have been others, and different members of the Senate aggressively questioned him, after which I proceeded to query him on the proof that he was going to convey me, and so on. However he did convey these up, sure.
ADAM SCHIFF:
And these different legislatures — legislators have been additionally Republican members of the Senate?
RUSTY BOWERS:
They have been, sure, sir.
ADAM SCHIFF:
And did in addition they press him for proof of those allegations?
RUSTY BOWERS:
They usually pressed him very strongly, two of them particularly, very strongly.
ADAM SCHIFF:
And in some unspecified time in the future, did Mr. Giuliani ask one of many different attorneys on his staff to assist him out with the proof?
RUSTY BOWERS:
He did. He requested Jenna Ellis, who was sitting to his proper. One factor was that it was extra to the purpose of was there enough proof or motion that we may justify the recalling of the electors. However at that a part of the dialog, I do know he — he referred to another person. However he did ask, do we’ve the proof to Jenna, Ms. Ellis, and he or she stated sure.
And I stated I need the names. Do you have got the names? Sure. Do you have got how they voted? We now have all the data. I stated, are you able to get to me that info? Did you convey it with you? Simply — she stated no. Each Mr. Giuliani requested her and I requested typically if they’d introduced it with them. She stated no, it is not with me, however we are able to get it to you. And I stated you then did not convey me the proof, which was repeated in numerous iterations for some time period.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Sooner or later, did one in all them make a remark that they did not have proof, however they’d quite a lot of theories?
RUSTY BOWERS:
That was Mr. Giuliani. And what precisely did he say and the way’d that come up? My recollection, he stated we have plenty of theories. We simply do not have the proof. And I do not know if that was a gaffe or perhaps he — he did not suppose by means of what he stated. However each myself and others in my group, the three in my group and my — my counsel, each remembered that particularly, and afterwards we type of laughed about it.
ADAM SCHIFF:
And, you already know, getting again to the ask in that telephone name that preceded this assembly, he wished you to have the legislature dismiss the Biden electors and exchange them with Trump electors on the premise of those theories of fraud.
RUSTY BOWERS:
I — he didn’t say in these precise phrases, however he did say that he — that Arizona regulation, in response to what he understood, that that might be allowed and that we would have liked to come back into session to handle that, which initiated a dialogue about, once more, what I can legally and never legally do. And I can not go into session in Arizona unilaterally or on my sole prerogative.
ADAM SCHIFF:
On this assembly or at another later time, did anybody offer you proof of election fraud enough to have an effect on the result of the presidential election in Arizona?
RUSTY BOWERS:
Nobody supplied me, ever, such proof.
ADAM SCHIFF:
The Choose Committee has uncovered proof in the midst of our investigation that at cease the steal protests at state capitols throughout the nation, there have been people with ties to the teams or events concerned within the January sixth assault on the US Capitol. A type of incursions befell within the Arizona Home of Representatives constructing, as you possibly can see on this footage.
That is beforehand undisclosed video of protesters illegally getting into and refusing to depart the constructing. One of many people prominently proven on this video is Jacob Chansley, maybe higher generally known as the QAnon Shaman. This rioter entered the Capitol on January sixth, was photographed leaving a threatening be aware on the dais within the US Senate chamber, and was in the end sentenced to 41 months in jail after pleading responsible to obstruction of an official continuing. Different protesters who occupied the Arizona Home of Representatives constructing included — included Proud Boys, whereas males armed with rifles stood simply exterior the doorway. I perceive these protesters have been calling for you by identify, Speaker Bowers. Is that right?
RUSTY BOWERS:
That’s right.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Speaker Bowers, did the president name you once more in late — later in December?
RUSTY BOWERS:
He did, sir.
ADAM SCHIFF:
And did you inform the president in that second name that you simply supported him, that you simply voted for him, however that you weren’t going to do something unlawful for him?
RUSTY BOWERS:
I did, sir.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Nonetheless, his lawyer, John Eastman, referred to as you some days in a while June 4th, 2000 — 2021. And he did have a really particular ask that might have required you to do exactly what you had already advised the president, you would not do, one thing that might violate your oath. Is that right?
RUSTY BOWERS:
That is right. It wasn’t simply me. I had my counsel and others on the — on the — on the decision.
ADAM SCHIFF:
And what did Dr. Eastman need you to do?
RUSTY BOWERS:
That we’d the truth is vote — to take a vote to overthrow or — I should not say overthrow, that we’d decertify the electors, and that that — as a result of we had plenary authority to take action. And also you cited Article Two, Part One, I feel it is Clause Two, and stated that in his opinion that gave us the authority if there was — I do not recall him saying enough proof, however there was some name or some robust motive to take action, that we — or justification to take action, that we may try this.
And that he was asking that we — he is — his suggestion was that we’d do it. And I stated, once more, I took an oath. For me to take that, to do what you do, would — could be counter to my oath. I do not recall if it was in that dialog clearly that we talked extra in regards to the oath. However I stated, what would you have got me do? And he stated simply do it and let the courtroom type it out. And I stated you are asking me to do one thing that is by no means been performed in historical past, the historical past of the
United States. And I will put my state by means of that with out enough proof, and that is going to be ok with me? That I might — I might put us by means of that, my state, that I swore to uphold each in Structure and in regulation?
No, sir. He stated, effectively, that is — my suggestion could be simply — simply do it and let the courts determine all of it out. And I — he did not use that precise phrase, however that was what he — his that means was. And I stated — I declined, and I consider that was near the tip of our telephone name.
ADAM SCHIFF:
And once more, this befell after you had lately spoken with President Trump and advised him that you simply would not do something unlawful for him. Is that proper?
RUSTY BOWERS:
It wasn’t days after. Clearly, it was days after, however a couple of days had passed by.
ADAM SCHIFF:
However you had advised President Trump you wouldn’t do something unlawful for him?
RUSTY BOWERS:
I did each occasions.
ADAM SCHIFF:
And also you advised Dr. Eastman that you simply didn’t consider there was authorized help to justify what he was asking, however he nonetheless wished you to do it and successfully let the courts work it out.
RUSTY BOWERS:
I have been warned do not say belongings you suppose perhaps he stated. However I do bear in mind him saying that the authority of the legislature was plenary, and that you are able to do it. I stated then you must know that I can not even name the legislature into session with no two-thirds majority vote. We’re solely 30 plus one. I –there’s no means that would occur.
ADAM SCHIFF:
However in your view, what he was asking you to do would have violated your oath to the Structure, each the US Structure and the Structure of the state of Arizona?
RUSTY BOWERS:
Sure, sir.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Did you additionally obtain a name from US Consultant Andy Biggs of Arizona on the morning of January sixth?
RUSTY BOWERS:
I did.
ADAM SCHIFF:
And what did Mr. Biggs ask you to do?
RUSTY BOWERS:
I consider that was the day that the vote was occurring to every state certification or to declare that the certification of the electors. And he requested if I might signal on each to a letter that had been despatched from my state and/or that I might help the decertification of the electors. And I stated I might not.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Mr. Speaker, on December 4th, 2020, shortly after your assembly with Rudy Giuliani and different allies of President Trump, you launched a press release publicly addressing quote, “requires the legislature to overturn the 2020 licensed election outcomes”. The assertion could be very easy in explaining the quote, “breathtaking request”, unquote made by representatives of President Trump quote, “that the Arizona legislature overturn the licensed outcomes of final month’s election and ship the state’s Electoral Faculty votes to President Trump”, unquote. Why did you consider as you wrote on this assertion that the rule of regulation forbid you from doing what President Trump and his allies wished you to do?
RUSTY BOWERS:
Consultant — I am sorry, I must be saying Mr. Chairman — Consultant Schiff. The — there’s two sides to the reply. One is, what am I allowed to do? And, what am I forbidden to do? We now have no authorized pathway, each in state regulation nor to my information in federal regulation, for us to execute such a request. And I’m not allowed to stroll or act past my authority if I am not particularly licensed as a legislator — as a legislature, then I can’t act to the purpose of calling us into session. Some say that just some legislators have plenary writer — authority and that’s come — is a part of all of this dialogue, I am going to name it. However — so to — to not have authority and be forbidden to behave past my authority, on each counts, I am not licensed to take such motion, and that might deny my oath.
ADAM SCHIFF:
In your assertion, you included excerpts from President Ronald Reagan’s inaugural tackle in 1981. The newly inaugurated President advised the nation quote, “the orderly switch of authority is named for within the Structure routinely takes place as is — because it has for nearly two centuries. And few of us cease to suppose how distinctive we actually are. Within the eyes of many on this planet, this each 4 12 months ceremony we settle for as regular is nothing lower than a miracle.” Inform us, in the event you would, Mr. Speaker, why did you embody President Reagan’s phrases in your public assertion?
RUSTY BOWERS:
Mr. Chairman, Consultant Schiff, as a result of I’ve quite a lot of admiration for Ronald Reagan. I had the chance of going to his residence with one different individual and strolling by means of. And I’ve quite a lot of admiration for him. When he identified, which is I — I’ve lived in different nation for a time period and have visited a couple of international locations and through election occasions. The truth that we permit an election, help an election, and stand behind the election, even prior to now when there have been critical questions in regards to the election after which transfer on with out disturbance and with acceptance that we select — we select to comply with the result of the need of the individuals. That can, it means quite a bit to me and I do know it meant quite a bit to him, and so I — we included that.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Thanks, Speaker Bowers. And I wish to look much more deeply on the pretend elector scheme. Each 4 years, residents from all around the United States go to the polls to elect their President. Below our Structure, after we forged our votes for President, we are literally voting to ship electors pledged to our most popular candidate to the Electoral Faculty. In December, the electors in every state meet, forged their votes, and ship these votes to Washington. There is just one legit slate of electors from every state. On the sixth day of January, Congress meets in a joint session to rely these votes and the winner of the Electoral Faculty vote turns into the President.
On this subsequent phase, you will hear how President Trump and his marketing campaign have been immediately concerned in advancing and coordinating the plot to switch legit Biden electors with pretend electors not chosen by the voters. You may hear how this marketing campaign satisfied these pretend electors to forged and submit their votes by means of pretend certificates telling them that their votes would solely be used within the occasion that President Trump gained his authorized challenges.
But, when the President misplaced these authorized challenges, when courts rejected them as frivolous and
with out advantage, the pretend elector scheme continued. At this level, President Trump’s personal legal professionals, so- referred to as staff regular, walked away reasonably than take part within the plan. And his personal White Home counsel’s workplace stated that the plan was not legally sound. Let’s play the next video produced by the Choose Committee.
[Begin Videotape]
CASEY LUCIER:
My identify is Casey Lucier. I am an investigative counsel for the Home Choose Committee to research the January sixth assault on the US Capitol. On November 18th, a lawyer working with the Trump marketing campaign, named Kenneth Chesebro, wrote a memo arguing that the Trump marketing campaign ought to set up its personal electors within the swing states that President Trump had misplaced. The Choose Committee acquired testimony that these near President Trump started planning to arrange pretend electors for Trump in states that Biden gained within the weeks after the election.
UNKNOWN:
Who do you bear in mind being concerned in these early discussions across the Thanksgiving time concerning having alternate electors meet?
CASSIDY HUTCHINSON:
Mr. Giuliani, a number of of Mr. Giuliani’s associates, Mr. Meadows, Members of Congress. Though it is troublesome to differentiate if the members I am pondering of have been concerned throughout Thanksgiving or in the event that they’re concerned as we progressed by means of December.
CASEY LUCIER:
On the President’s direct request, the RNC assisted the marketing campaign in coordinating this effort.
UNKNOWN:
What did the President say when he referred to as you?
RONNA ROMNEY MCDANIEL:
Primarily, he turned the decision over to Mr. Eastman who then proceeded to speak in regards to the significance of the RNC serving to the marketing campaign collect these contingent electors in case any of the authorized challenges that have been ongoing modified the results of any of states [ph]. I feel extra simply serving to them attain out and assemble them. However that — my understanding is the marketing campaign did take the lead and we simply have been serving to them in that – – in that position.
CASEY LUCIER:
As President Trump and his supporters continued to lose lawsuits, some marketing campaign legal professionals grew to become satisfied that convening electors in states that Trump misplaced was not acceptable.
JUSTIN CLARK:
I simply bear in mind I both replied or referred to as any person saying, until we’ve litigation pending this, like, in these states, like, I do not suppose that is acceptable or, you already know, this is not the precise factor to do. I do not bear in mind how I phrased it, however I obtained into somewhat little bit of a backwards and forwards and I feel it was with Ken Chesebro, the place I stated, Alright, you already know, you simply get after it, like, I am out.
MATT MORGAN:
At that time, I had Josh Finley electronic mail Mr. Chesebro politely to say that is your process. You’re answerable for the Electoral Faculty points transferring ahead. And this was my means of taking that duty to zero.
CASEY LUCIER:
The committee discovered the White Home counsel’s workplace additionally felt the plan was doubtlessly unlawful.
UNKNOWN:
And so to be clear, did you hear the White Home counsel’s workplace say that this plan to have alternate electors meet and forged votes for Donald Trump in states that he had misplaced was not legally sound?
CASSIDY HUTCHINSON:
Sure, sir.
UNKNOWN:
And who was current for that assembly that you simply bear in mind?
CASSIDY HUTCHINSON:
It was in our workplaces. Mr. Meadows, Mr. Giuliani, and some of Mr. Giuliani’s associates.
CASEY LUCIER:
The Choose Committee interviewed a number of of the person pretend electors in addition to Trump marketing campaign workers who helped set up the hassle.
ROBERT SINNERS:
We have been simply, you already know, type of — type of helpful idiots or rubes at that time. You understand, a robust a part of me actually feels that it is simply type of because the highway continued and as that was failure, failure, failure that that obtained formulated as what we’ve on the desk. Let’s simply do it.
UNKNOWN:
And now after what we have advised you at the moment in regards to the committee’s investigation, in regards to the conclusion of the skilled legal professionals on the marketing campaign workers, Justin Clark, Matt Morgan, and Josh Finley, about their unwillingness to take part within the convening of those electors, how does that contribute to your understanding of those points?
ROBERT SINNERS:
I am indignant. I am indignant as a result of I feel — I feel in a way, you already know, nobody actually cared if — if individuals have been doubtlessly placing themselves in jeopardy.
UNKNOWN:
Would you haven’t wished to take part on this any additional as effectively?
ROBERT SINNERS:
I completely wouldn’t have had I identified that the three primary legal professionals for the marketing campaign that I would spoken to prior to now and have been main up weren’t on board. Yeah.
ANDREW HITT:
I used to be advised that these would solely rely if a courtroom dominated in our favor. So that might have been utilizing our electors — effectively, it could have been utilizing our electors in ways in which we weren’t advised about and we would not have supported.
CASEY LUCIER:
Paperwork obtained by the Choose Committee point out that directions got to the electors in a number of states that they wanted to forged their ballots in full secrecy. As a result of this scheme concerned pretend electors, these collaborating in sure states had no option to adjust to state election legal guidelines like the place the electors have been supposed to satisfy. One group of faux electors even thought-about hiding in a single day to make sure that they may entry the state capital as required in Michigan.
UNKNOWN:
Did Mr. Norton say who he was working with in any respect on this effort to have electors meet?
LAURA COX:
He stated he was working with the President’s marketing campaign. He advised me that the Michigan Republican electors have been planning to satisfy within the Capitol and conceal in a single day in order that they may fulfill the position of casting their vote in — per regulation within the Michigan chambers. And I advised him in no unsure phrases that that was insane and inappropriate.
CASEY LUCIER:
In a single state, the pretend electors even requested for a promise that the marketing campaign would pay their authorized charges in the event that they obtained sued or charged with a criminal offense. Finally, pretend electors did meet on December 14th, 2020 in Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania, New Mexico, Nevada, and Wisconsin. On the request of the Trump marketing campaign, the electors from these battleground states signed paperwork falsely asserting that they have been the quote, “duly elected electors,” from their state and submitted them to the Nationwide Archives and to Vice President Pence in his capability as President of the Senate. Here’s what a number of the pretend electors’ certificates seem like as in comparison with the true ones. However these ballots had no authorized impact. In an electronic mail produced to the Choose Committee, Dr. Eastman advised a Trump marketing campaign consultant that it didn’t matter that the electors had not been permitted by a state authority.
Quote, “the truth that we’ve a number of slate of electors demonstrates the uncertainty of both. That must be sufficient”. He urged that Pence act boldly and be challenged. Paperwork produced to the Choose Committee present that the Trump marketing campaign took steps to make sure that the bodily copies of the pretend electors’ electoral votes from two states have been delivered to Washington for January sixth. Textual content messages exchanged between Republican Get together officers in Wisconsin confirmed that on January 4th, the Trump marketing campaign requested for somebody to fly their pretend electors’ paperwork to Washington. A staffer for Wisconsin Senator Ron Johnson texted a staffer for Vice President Pence simply minutes earlier than the start of the joint session. This staffer acknowledged that Senator Johnson wished to hand- ship to the Vice President the pretend electors’ votes from Michigan and Wisconsin. The Vice President’s aide unambiguously instructed them to not ship the pretend votes to the Vice President.
Although the pretend electors’ slates have been transmitted to Congress and the manager department, the Vice President held agency in his place that his position was to rely lawfully submitted electoral votes.
MIKE PENCE:
Joseph Biden, Jr of the state of Delaware has acquired 306 votes. Donald J Trump of the state of Florida has acquired 232 votes.
CASEY LUCIER:
Which is what he did when the joint session resumed on January sixth after the assault on the Capitol.
[End Videotape]
ADAM SCHIFF:
Effectively, we simply heard in that video was an aide to the White Home chief of workers telling this committee that the White Home counsel’s workplace felt that this pretend electors plan was not legally sound. Nonetheless, the Trump marketing campaign went ahead with the scheme anyway. Speaker Bowers, have been you conscious that pretend electors had met in Phoenix on December 14th and presupposed to forged electoral votes for President Trump?
RUSTY BOWERS:
I used to be not.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Whenever you discovered that these electors had met and despatched their electoral votes to Washington, what did you suppose?
RUSTY BOWERS:
Effectively, I considered the e-book, The Gang That Could not Shoot Straight. And I simply thought, this can be a — this can be a tragic parody.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Mr. Bowers, I perceive that as you flew from Phoenix to Washington yesterday, you mirrored upon some passages from a private journal that you simply have been maintaining in December 2020 whereas all of this was happening. Along with your permission, I am questioning in the event you could be keen to share one passage specifically with us.
RUSTY BOWERS:
Thanks very a lot. It’s painful to have associates who’ve been such a assist to me activate me with such rancor. I’ll within the eyes of males not maintain right opinions or act in response to their imaginative and prescient or convictions, however I don’t take this present state of affairs in a lightweight method, a fearful method, or a vengeful method. I don’t wish to be a winner by dishonest. I cannot play with legal guidelines I swore allegiance to. With any contrived want in direction of deflection of my deep foundational want to comply with God’s will as I consider He led my conscience to embrace. How else will I ever method Him within the wilderness of life? Realizing that I ask this steering solely to point out myself a coward in defending the course He let me take — He led me to take.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Thanks, Mr. Speaker. These are highly effective phrases. I perceive that taking the brave positions that you simply did following the 2020 election in protection of the rule of regulation and defending the voters of Arizona resulted in you and your loved ones being subjected to protests and horrible threats. Are you able to inform us how this impacted you and your loved ones?
RUSTY BOWERS:
Effectively, as others within the movies have talked about, we acquired, my secretaries would say, in extra of 20,000 emails and tens of hundreds of voicemails and texts which saturated our workplaces. And we have been unable to work, no less than talk, that at residence, up until even lately, it’s the new sample or a sample in our lives to fret what’s going to occur on Saturdays as a result of we’ve varied teams come by they usually have had video panel vans with movies of me proclaiming me to be a pedophile and a pervert and a corrupt politician and blaring loudspeakers in my neighborhood and leaving literature each on my property, and — however arguing and threatening with neighbors and with myself.
And I do not know if I ought to identify teams, however there was a — one gentleman that had the three bars on his chest. And he had a pistol and was threatening my neighbor. Not with the pistol, however simply vocally. Once I noticed the gun, I knew I needed to get shut. And on the identical time, on a few of these we had a daughter who’s gravely unwell, who’s upset by what was occurring exterior. And my spouse that may be a valiant individual, very, very robust, quiet, very robust lady. So it was disturbing. It was disturbing.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Mr. Speaker, I wish to thanks on your service to the state of Arizona and to the nation. Mr. Chairman, at this level, I feel it might be acceptable to take a brief recess. Accordingly. I reserve the stability of my time.
BENNIE THOMPSON:
The Chair requests that these within the listening to room stay seated till the Capitol Police have escorted members and witnesses from the room. We’ll have 5 minutes — 5 minute recess.
BENNIE THOMPSON:
The committee will likely be so as. President Trump’s stress marketing campaign towards state officers existed in all the important thing battleground states that he misplaced, however the former president had a selected obsession with Georgia. Right here is the president on the afternoon of January sixth after his personal legal professional normal warned him that the claims you might be about to listen to are obviously false.
[Begin videotape]
DONALD TRUMP:
They need to discover these votes. They need to completely discover that. Simply over 11,000 votes, that is all we’d like. They defrauded us out of a win in Georgia, and we’re not going to overlook it.
[End videotape]
BENNIE THOMPSON:
So, the state of Georgia is the place we are going to flip our consideration to subsequent. I wish to emphasize that our investigation into these points remains to be ongoing. As I acknowledged in our final listening to, when you have related info or documentary proof to share with the choose committee, we welcome your cooperation, however we are going to share a few of our findings with you at the moment.
Secretary Raffensperger, thanks for being right here at the moment. You have been a public servant in Georgia since 2015, serving first as a member of the Georgia Home of Representatives after which, since January 2019, as Georgia’s Secretary of state. As a self-described conservative Republican, it’s — is it honest to say that you simply wished President Trump to win the 2020 election?
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER:
Sure, it’s.
BENNIE THOMPSON:
Mr. Secretary, many witnesses have advised the Choose Committee that Election Day, November third, 2020, was a largely uneventful day of their residence states. Regardless of the challenges of conducting an election throughout a pandemic, you wrote in The Washington Submit that the election was “profitable.” Inform us, what was your impression of how Election Day had proceeded in Georgia?
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER:
On Election Day in November, our election went remarkably easy. Actually, we meet on the GEMA headquarters. That is the Georgia Vitality — Emergency Administration Affiliation assembly location, however we have been following wait occasions in line within the afternoon. Our common wait time was three minutes statewide that we have been recording for varied precincts, and it truly obtained down to 2 minutes.
And on the finish of the day, we felt that we had a profitable election from the standpoint of the administration and the operation of the election.
BENNIE THOMPSON:
Thanks. The chair acknowledges the gentleman from California, Mr. Schiff.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Thanks, Mr. Chairman. Secretary Raffensperger, did Joe Biden win the 2020 presidential election in Georgia, and by what margin?
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER:
President Biden carried the state of Georgia by roughly 12,000 votes.
ADAM SCHIFF:
And Mr. Secretary, as I perceive it, your workplace took a number of steps to make sure the accuracy of the vote rely in Georgia, reviewing the vote rely in no less than three alternative ways. These steps included a machine recount, a forensic audit, and a full hand recount of each one of many 5 million ballots forged.
Did these efforts, together with a recount of actually each poll forged within the state of Georgia, verify the outcome?
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER:
Sure, they did. We counted the ballots with — the primary tabulation could be scanned. Then after we did our one hundred pc hand audit of the whole — all 5 million ballots within the state of Georgia, all forged in place, all absentee ballots, they have been all hand recounted, they usually got here remarkably near the primary rely.
After which, upon the election being licensed, President Trump, as a result of he was in — inside a half % — excuse me — may ask for a recount, after which we recounted them once more by means of the scanner, so we obtained remarkably the identical rely. Three counts, all remarkably shut, which confirmed that President Trump did come up brief.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Nonetheless, as you will note, the president and his allies started in making — started making quite a few false allegations of voter fraud, false allegations that you simply and Mr. Sterling, amongst others, needed to tackle. Mr. Sterling, thanks additionally for being right here at the moment. Following the 2020 election, along with your regular duties, I perceive that you simply grew to become a spokesperson to attempt to fight disinformation in regards to the election and the hazard it was creating for elections officers, amongst others.
In a December 1 press convention, you addressed a few of your remarks on to President Trump.
Let’s check out what you stated that day.
[Begin videotape]
GABRIEL STERLING:
Mr. President, it appears such as you seemingly misplaced the state of Georgia. We’re investigating. There’s all the time a risk — I get it, and you’ve got the rights to go to the courts. What you do not have the flexibility to do, and you want to step up and say this, is cease inspiring individuals to commit potential acts of violence.
Somebody’s going to get harm, somebody’s going to get shot, somebody’s going to get killed, and it is not proper. I — I — it is not proper.
[End videotape]
ADAM SCHIFF:
Mr. Sterling, what prompted you to make these remarks.
GABRIEL STERLING:
Mr. Schiff, we had had a beforehand scheduled press convention that day, as we have been within the behavior of doing, making an attempt to be as clear as we may in regards to the election and the counts occurring. Slightly after lunch that day, lunchtime, I acquired a name from the venture supervisor from Dominion Voting Techniques, who was oddly audibly shaken.
She’s not the type of individual I might assume could be that means. She has a grasp’s from MIT, a graduate of Naval Academy, and could be very a lot on the ball and fairly unflappable. And she or he knowledgeable me a few — a younger contractor they’d who had been receiving threats from a — a video had been posted by some QAnon supporters.
And at that time, we had been form of — been steeping in this type of stuff, so we have been — it was round us on a regular basis, so I — I did not pay attention to it greater than including to the pile of different stuff we have been having to take care of. And I did pull up Twitter and I scrolled by means of it, and I noticed the younger man’s identify.
It was a selected tweet that, for lack of a greater phrase, was the straw that broke the camel’s again. Had the younger man’s identify. It is a very distinctive identify. I believed it was first era American, and stated – had his identify, you dedicated treason, could God have mercy in your soul, with a slowly twisting gif of a noose.
And for lack of a greater phrase, I misplaced it. I simply obtained irate. My boss was with me on the time, Deputy Secretary Jordan Fuchs, and he or she may inform that I used to be indignant. I used to be turning — I have a tendency to show pink from right here up when that occurs, and that occurred at the moment. And she or he referred to as Secretary Raffensperger to say we’re seeing these type of threats, and Gabe thinks we have to say one thing about it. And Secretary stated sure, and that is what prompted me to do what I did.
I misplaced my mood, nevertheless it appeared essential on the time as a result of it was simply getting worse. And I do not — I couldn’t inform you why that exact one was the one which put me over the sting, nevertheless it did.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Now, after you made this plea to the president, did Donald Trump urge his supporters to keep away from the usage of violence?
GABRIEL STERLING:
To not my information.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Now, as we all know, the president was conscious of your speech as a result of he tweeted about it later that day.
Let’s check out what the president stated. Within the tweet, Donald Trump claims that there was “huge voter fraud in Georgia.” Mr. Sterling, that was simply plain false, wasn’t it?
GABRIEL STERLING:
Sure, sir.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Nonetheless, the very subsequent day, on December 2nd, President Trump launched a prolonged video once more making false claims of election fraud in Georgia. Let’s check out what he stated this time.
[Begin videotape]
DONALD TRUMP:
They discovered hundreds and hundreds of votes that have been out of whack, all towards me. [End videotape]
ADAM SCHIFF:
Actually, the day after Donald Trump launched that video, so now we’re speaking simply two days after the emotional warning that you simply gave that somebody’s going to get killed, representatives of President Trump appeared in Georgia, together with Rudy Giuliani, and launched a brand new conspiracy concept that might tackle a lifetime of its personal and threaten the lives of a number of harmless election staff.
This story falsely alleges that someday throughout election evening, election staff on the State Farm Area in Atlanta, Georgia kicked out ballot observers. After the observers left, the story goes, these staff pulled so-called suitcases of ballots from beneath a desk and ran these ballots by means of counting machines a number of occasions.
Utterly with out proof, President Trump and his allies claimed that these suitcases contained as many as 18,000 ballots, all for Joe Biden. None of this was true, however Rudy Giuliani appeared earlier than the Georgia State Senate and performed a surveillance video from State Farm Area falsely claiming that it confirmed this conspiracy happening.
This is a pattern of what Mr. Giuliani needed to say throughout that listening to.
[Begin videotape]
RUDY GIULIANI:
And once you take a look at what you noticed on the video, which to me was a smoking gun, highly effective smoking gun, effectively, I do not — do not need to be a genius to determine what occurred. And I — I haven’t got to be a genius to determine that these votes will not be legit votes. You do not put legit votes beneath a desk —
UNKNOWN:
No.
RUDY GIULIANI:
Wait till you throw the opposition out and, in the midst of the evening, rely them. We must be fools to suppose that.
[End videotape]
ADAM SCHIFF:
President Trump’s marketing campaign amplified Giuliani’s false testimony in a tweet, pushing out the video footage. Giuliani likewise pushed out his testimony on social media. As you possibly can see on this tweet, Mr. Giuliani wrote that it was “now past doubt” that Fulton County Democrats had stolen the election.
Later on this listening to, we’ll hear immediately from one of many election staff on this video in regards to the impact these lies had on her and on her household.
Mr. Sterling, did the investigators in your workplace assessment the whole surveillance tape from the State Farm Area on election evening?
GABRIEL STERLING:
They really reviewed roughly 48 hours going over the time interval the place — the place motion was happening on the counting middle at State Farm Area.
ADAM SCHIFF:
And what did the tape truly present?
GABRIEL STERLING:
Relying on which period you wish to begin, as a result of as was talked about this conspiracy concept took on a lifetime of its personal the place they conflated a water primary break that wasn’t a water primary break and throwing observers out and a collection of different issues. What it truly confirmed was Fulton County election staff participating in regular poll processing.
One of many particular issues — one of many issues that was very irritating was the so-called suitcases of ballots from beneath the desk. Should you watch the whole thing of the video, you noticed that these have been election staff who have been beneath the impression they have been going to get to go residence round 10, 10:30. Individuals are placing on their coats.
They’re placing ballots which can be ready to be scanned into poll carriers which can be then sealed with tamper proof seals so that you simply — they’ll — you already know they are not messed with. And the — it is an fascinating factor trigger you watch all — there’s 4 screens of the video. And as you are watching it, you possibly can see the election screens within the nook with the press as they’re taking these poll carriers and placing them beneath the — beneath the desk.
You see it there. One of many different hidden ones, in the event you seemed on the precise tape, was on the skin of the desk. Simply from the digital camera angle you could not see it initially. And this goes beneath the no good deed goes unpunished. We have been advised — we have been at GMA, because the Secretary identified. And we have been beneath the — we have been advised that it seemed like they have been shutting down the Fulton County counting.
The se — Secretary expressed some displeasure with that as a result of we wished to have all people maintain counting so we may get to the outcomes and know what was occurring. So our elections director referred to as their elections director who was at one other location, as a result of this was Election Day. There was two totally different locations the place poll issues have been being performed by the Fulton County workplace.
So he referred to as — the elections director for Fulton then referred to as Ralph Jones, who was on the State Farm Area and stated what the heck are you doing? Go forward and keep. And as you watch the video itself, you see him take the telephone name as persons are placing issues away and on the point of go away. And you may inform for about 15, 20 seconds, he doesn’t wish to inform these individuals they’ve to remain.
He walks over, he thinks about it for a second. You see him come again to the nook of a desk and type of slumps his shoulders and says Okay, y’all, we obtained to maintain on counting. And you then see them take their coats off, get the ballots out. After which a secondary factor that you’re going to see on there’s you will have people who find themselves counting ballots who a batch will undergo, they’ll take them off and run that by means of once more.
What occurs there’s a normal working process. That if there’s a missed scan, if there is a misalignment, if it does not learn proper — these are excessive velocity, excessive capability scanners. So three or 4 will undergo after a mis-scan. It’s important to delete that batch and put it again by means of once more. And by going by means of the hand tally, because the Secretary identified, we confirmed that if there had been a number of ballots scanned with no, you already know, corresponding bodily poll, your counts would have been quite a bit greater than the ballots themselves.
And by doing the hand tally, we noticed two particular numbers that have been me — met. The hand tally obtained us to a .1053 % off of the whole votes forged and .0099 % on the margin, which is basically useless on correct. Most educational research say on a hand tally you’ll have between one and two %. However as a result of we use poll marking units the place it’s totally clear what the voter meant, it made it quite a bit simpler to us — for us to conduct that hand rely and present that none of that was true.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Now I perceive that once you reviewed these tapes and did the evaluation, it disproved this con – conspiracy concept. However you continue to needed to take quite a lot of steps to attempt to verify the general public knew the reality about these allegations. And you probably did frequent briefings for the press. Let’s check out a kind of press briefings, Mr. Sterling, that you simply held on December seventh to make the purpose that you simply simply did at the moment.
[Begin Videotape]
GABRIEL STERLING:
Transfer on to what I will name disinformation Monday. Out of the gate, a lot of you all noticed the videotape from State Farm Area. I spent hours with our submit licensed investigators. Justin Grey from WSB spent hours with us going over this video to elucidate to those that what you noticed, the key suitcases of magic ballots, have been truly ballots that had been packed into these absentee poll carriers by the employees in plain view of the screens and the press.
And what’s actually irritating is the President’s attorneys had this identical videotape. They noticed the very same issues the remainder of us may see. They usually selected to mislead state Senators and the general public about what was on that video. I am fairly positive that they won’t characterize the video in the event that they attempt to enter into proof as a result of that’s the type of factor that may result in sanctions as a result of it is clearly unfaithful.
They knew it was unfaithful they usually proceed to do issues like this.
[End Videotape]
ADAM SCHIFF:
Mr. Sterling, regardless of the efforts by your workplace to fight this misinformation — misinformation by talking out publicly and thru native media, you have been unable to match the attain of President Trump’s platform and social media megaphone spreading these false conspiracy theories. What was it wish to compete with the President, who had the largest bully pulpit on this planet to push out these false claims?
GABRIEL STERLING:
For lack of a greater phrase, it was irritating. However oftentimes I felt our info was getting out, however that there was a reticence of people that wanted to consider it to consider it as a result of the President of the US, who many seemed as much as and revered, was telling them it wasn’t true regardless of the info.
And I’ve characterised at one level it was type of like a shovel making an attempt to empty the ocean. And sure, it was irritating. I even have, you already know, relations who I needed to argue with about a few of these issues. And I might present them issues. And the issue you have got is you are attending to individuals’s hearts.
I bear in mind there’s one particular — an legal professional that we all know that we confirmed him, walked him by means of.
This wasn’t true. Okay, I get that. This wasn’t true. Okay, I get that. This wasn’t — 5 – 6 issues. However on the finish he goes, I simply know in my coronary heart they cheated. That is the stan — and so when you get previous the guts, the info do not matter as a lot.
And our job from our viewpoint was to get the info out, do our job, inform the reality, comply with the Structure, comply with the regulation, and defend the establishments. And the establishments held.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Let’s check out what you have been competing with. That is former — the previous President talking in Georgia on December fifth.
[Begin Videotape]
DONALD TRUMP:
But it surely’s a fraud. It is overwhelming. And once more, I will ask you to lookup at that very, very highly effective and really costly display screen.
[Begin Videotape]
UNKNOWN:
Hidden instances of attainable ballots are rolled out from beneath a desk. 4 individuals beneath a cloud of suspicion.
[End Videotape]
DONALD TRUMP:
So in the event you simply take the crime of what these Democrats — staff have been doing — and by the best way there was no water primary break. You understand, they stated there — there was no water primary break. That is 10 occasions greater than I have to win this state. 10 occasions extra. That is 10 occasions, perhaps greater than that, nevertheless it’s 10 occasions extra as a result of we misplaced by a really shut quantity.
[End Videotape]
ADAM SCHIFF:
On this committee’s listening to final Monday, we heard from senior federal regulation enforcement officers – from the senior most federal regulation enforcement official in Atlanta on the time, US Legal professional for the Northern District BJay Pak, in addition to former Legal professional Common Invoice Barr. They each testified that the allegations have been completely investigated and located to haven’t any advantage.
Right here is US Legal professional Pak.
[Begin Videotape]
BJAY PAK:
Particularly to Legal professional Common Barr, I advised him that we seemed into it. We have performed a number of issues together with interviewing the witnesses. I listened to the — the tapes and reviewed the videotape myself and that there was nothing there. Giuliani was fallacious in representing that this was a suitcase stuffed with ballots.
[End Videotape]
ADAM SCHIFF:
And here is what Legal professional Common Invoice Barr needed to say about the identical allegations.
[Begin Videotape]
WILLIAM BARR:
Took a glance — laborious take a look at this ourselves. And based mostly on our assessment of and together with the interviews of the important thing witnesses, the Fulton County allegations have been — had no advantage.
[End Videotape]
ADAM SCHIFF:
We even have testimony from senior Division of Justice officers establishing that they particularly advised President Trump that these allegations had been completely investigated and have been fully with out advantage.
Right here is Appearing Legal professional — Deputy Legal professional Common Richard Donoghue describing a telephone dialog through which he particularly advised President Trump that these allegations have been false.
[Begin Videotape]
RICHARD DONOGHUE:
They saved fixating on this suitcase that supposedly had fraudulent ballots in it. The suitcase was rolled out from beneath the desk. And I stated no, Sir. There isn’t a suitcase. You’ll be able to watch that video time and again. There isn’t a suitcase. There’s a wheeled bin the place they ca –
[End Videotape]
ADAM SCHIFF:
The place they carry the ballots. Regardless of what number of occasions Senior Division of Justice officers, together with his personal Legal professional Common, advised the President that these allegations weren’t true, President Trump saved selling these lies and placing stress on state officers to simply accept them. On January 2nd, the President had a prolonged phone dialog with Secretary Raffensperger.
Previous to the President’s name, although, I wish to share a little bit of necessary context. First, the White Home, together with the previous President’s Chief of Employees Mark Meadows repeatedly referred to as or texted the Secretary’s workplace some 18 occasions with the intention to arrange this name.
They have been fairly persistent. Second, Chief of Employees Mark Meadows took the extraordinary step of displaying up at a signature audit web site in Georgia the place he met with Secretary Raffensperger’s chief investigator Frances Watson who was supervising that audit course of. Behind me is {a photograph} from that go to. Third, the day after Meadows’ Georgia go to, he arrange a name between President Trump and Frances Watson.
On the decision between President Trump and Georgia investigator Frances Watson, the previous President continued to push the false declare that he’d gained the state of Georgia. Let’s hearken to that a part of the dialog.
[Begin Videotape]
DONALD TRUMP:
You understand, it is simply you have got crucial job within the nation proper now. As a result of if we win Georgia — to start with if we win you are gonna have two wins. Effectively you are not — they are not going to win proper now. You understand, they’re down as a result of the individuals of Georgia are so indignant at what occurred to me. They know I gained.
Received by a whole bunch of hundreds of votes. It wasn’t shut.
[End Videotape]
ADAM SCHIFF:
And on this subsequent clip, he advised this state regulation enforcement official that she’d be praised if she discovered the precise reply.
[Begin Videotape]
DONALD TRUMP:
Hopefully, you already know, I’ll — when — when the precise reply comes out you will be praised. I imply, I do not know why, you already know, they made it so laborious. And also you — they are going to be praised. Individuals will say nice.
As a result of that is what it is about, that capacity to examine and to — and to make it proper. As a result of everybody is aware of it is fallacious.
There’s simply no means.
[End Videotape]
ADAM SCHIFF:
Mr. Raffensperger, I do know you were not on this name, however — however that you’ve got listened to it. President Trump did not win by a whole bunch of hundreds of votes in Georgia, did he?
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER:
No, he didn’t. I have been touring by means of the state of Georgia for a 12 months now and easily put in a nutshell, what occurred in fall of 2020 is that 28,000 Georgians skipped the Presidential race and but they voted down poll in different races. And the Republican Congressman ended up getting 33,000 extra votes than President Trump.
And that is why President Trump got here up brief.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Thanks, Mr. Secretary. The President on this name does not cease right here. Let’s pay attention to a different a part of the dialog between President Trump and Ms. Watson.
[Begin Videotape]
DONALD TRUMP:
Anyway, however no matter you are able to do, Frances, it could be — it is an excellent factor. It is an necessary factor for the nation. So necessary. You haven’t any concept, it is so necessary –
FRANCES WATSON:
— Effectively, Mr. —
DONALD TRUMP:
— And I very a lot respect it. [End Videotape]
ADAM SCHIFF:
No matter you are able to do, Frances. That is the President of the US calling an investigator wanting into the election through which he’s a candidate and asking her to do no matter you are able to do. Mr. Secretary, he positioned this name to your chief investigator on September twenty third, 2020. The subcommittee has acquired textual content messages indicating that Mark Meadows wished to ship a number of the investigators in her workplace within the phrases of 1 White Home aide a shitload of POTUS stuff, together with cash, precise autographed MAGA hats, and so on.
White Home workers intervened to make it possible for did not occur. It was clear on the time of this name that the previous President had his sights set on January sixth. Hearken to this portion when he advised Frances Watson about a vital date.
[Begin Videotape]
DONALD TRUMP:
Do you suppose you will be Working after Christmas to maintain it going quick? As a result of, you already know, we’ve that date of the sixth, which is a vital date.
[End Videotape]
ADAM SCHIFF:
That necessary date, in fact, was the joint session of Congress the place Georgia’s electoral votes could be counted for Joe Biden. Slightly — somewhat over per week after this name to Frances Watson, the President was lastly capable of communicate with you, Secretary Raffensperger. Keep in mind as we mentioned this name at the moment that by this time limit, early January, the election in Georgia had already been licensed.
However maybe extra necessary, the President of the US had already been advised repeatedly by his personal high Justice Division officers that the claims he was about to make to you about huge fraud in Georgia have been fully false.
Mr. Secretary, the decision between you and the President lasted 67 minutes, over an hour. We clearly cannot hearken to the whole recording right here at the moment, though it’s accessible on the Choose Committee’s web site. However we’ll pay attention to chose excerpts of it now in order that we are able to get your insights. Let’s start with the President elevating the completely debunked allegations of suitcases of ballots.
[Begin Videotape]
DONALD TRUMP:
Weren’t in an official voter field. They have been in what seemed to be suitcases or trunks. Suitcases, however they weren’t in — in voter packing containers.
DONALD TRUMP:
The minimal quantity it may very well be — as a result of we watched it they usually — they watched it and authorized in gradual movement, immediate replay, in the event you can consider it, nevertheless it had gradual movement and it was magnified many occasions over. And the minimal it was was 18,000 ballots, all for Biden.
[End Videotape]
ADAM SCHIFF:
These are the allegations that the Division of Justice, the legal professional normal, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, and your workplace had all stated have been false. Is that proper?
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER:
Appropriate. And much more importantly, when BJ Pak resigned as US legal professional of the Northern District, President Trump appointed as performing US legal professional of the Northern District Bobby Christine. And Bobby Christine checked out that and he was quoted the AJC [ph] that he discovered nothing, and he dismissed that case early additionally.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Thanks, Mr. Secretary. The President references suitcases or trunks. Mr. Sterling, have been the objects seen in these movies suitcases or trunks or have been they only the strange containers which can be utilized by election staff?
GABRIEL STERLING:
They’re stand — normal poll carriers that permit for seals to be placed on them in order that they’re tamper proof.
ADAM SCHIFF:
And eventually, the President claims that there was a minimal of 18,000 ballots someway smuggled in all for Biden. I take it, gents, that was additionally categorically false?
GABRIEL STERLING:
There isn’t any — A, there isn’t any bodily means he can know who these ballots have been for. However secondarily, we had — Fulton County for years, has been a problem in our state with regards to elections. So we had a — they’d a really troublesome time throughout the major — largely due to COVID. So we had put them beneath a consent decree the secretary obtained negotiated the place we had a monitor on web site and his identify was Carter Jones.
And he took a notation. He had gone from State Farm to the English Road warehouse to have a look at Election Day actions. However earlier than he left the State Farm enviornment, he famous what number of ballots have been counted on every one of many machines. And when he got here again after we discovered they have been working once more, he took be aware once more once they closed.
And I consider the ultimate quantity was one thing round 8,900 whole ballots have been scanned from the time he left to the time about 12:30 or 1:00 within the morning. So means beneath 18,000.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Let’s play the following clip.
[Begin Videotape]
DONALD TRUMP:
I heard it was shut, so I stated there isn’t any means. However they dropped quite a lot of votes of their late at evening. You understand that, Brad.
[End Videotape]
ADAM SCHIFF:
Mr. Secretary, did any person drop — drop quite a lot of votes there late at evening?
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER:
No, I consider that the President was referring to a number of the counties once they would add, however the ballots had all been accepted and needed to be accepted by state regulation by 7 pm. So there have been no further ballots accepted after 7 pm.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Let’s play the following clip through which the President makes claims about so-called useless voters.
[Begin Videotape]
DONALD TRUMP:
The opposite factor, useless individuals. So useless individuals voted. And I feel the — the quantity is within the shut to five,000 individuals. They usually went to obituaries. They went to all kinds of strategies to give you an correct quantity. And a minimal is near about 5,000 voters.
[End Videotape]
ADAM SCHIFF:
So Secretary, did your workplace investigated whether or not these allegations have been correct? Did 5,000 useless individuals in Georgia vote?
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER:
No, it is not correct. And really of their lawsuits they allege 10,315 useless individuals. We discovered two useless individuals after I wrote my letter to Congress that is dated January six, and subsequent to that we discovered two extra. That is one, two, three, 4 individuals. Not 4,000, however only a whole 4. Not 10,000. Not 5,000.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Let’s play the following clip.
[Begin Videotape]
DONALD TRUMP:
And there is nothing fallacious with saying that, you already know, that you have recalculated as a result of it is 2,236 in absentee ballots. I imply, they’re all precise numbers that have been — have been performed by accounting corporations, regulation corporations, and so on. And even in the event you minimize them in half, minimize them in half, and minimize them in half. Once more, it is extra votes than we’d like.
[End Videotape]
ADAM SCHIFF:
Mr. Secretary, is there any means that you could possibly have lawfully modified the outcome within the state of Georgia and someway defined it away as a recalculation?
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER:
No, the numbers are the numbers. The numbers do not lie. We had many allegations and we investigated each single one in all them. Actually, I challenged my staff, did we miss something?
They stated that there was over 66,000 underage voters. We discovered that there was truly zero. You’ll be able to register to vote in Georgia once you’re 17 and a half.
It’s important to be 18 by Election Day. We checked that out. Each single voter. They stated that there was 2,423 nonregistered voters. There have been zero. They stated that there was 2,056 felons. We recognized lower than 74 or much less that have been truly nonetheless on a felony sentence. Each single allegation we checked, we ran down the rabbit path to make it possible for our numbers have been correct.
ADAM SCHIFF:
So there isn’t any means you could possibly have recalculated it, besides by fudging the numbers?
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER:
The numbers have been the numbers and we couldn’t recalculate as a result of we had made positive that we had checked each single allegation. And we had many investigations; we had almost thrown from the 2020 election.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Mr. Secretary, you tried to push again when the President made these unsupported claims, whether or not they have been about suitcases of ballots or that Biden votes have been counted 3 times. Let’s play the following clip.
[Begin Videotape]
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER:
Mr. President, they didn’t put that plea. We — we — we did an audit of that and we proved conclusively that they weren’t scanned 3 times. Sure, Mr. President, we’ll ship you the hyperlink from WSB –
DONALD TRUMP:
I do not care a few hyperlink. I do not want it. I’ve a a lot better — we’re gonna have a a lot better hyperlink.
[End Videotape]
ADAM SCHIFF:
You advised the President you’ll ship him a hyperlink from WSB, which I perceive is a neighborhood tv station that had a unedited video from the State Farm Area. However the President wasn’t inquisitive about that. He stated he had a a lot better hyperlink. Mr. Secretary, on the time that you simply have been on the decision with the President as we’ve proven each the FBI and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation had confirmed these claims to be nonsense.
And also you advised him about these investigations on the telephone. Let’s hearken to what President Trump needed to say in regards to the state and federal regulation enforcement officers who performed, who investigated these false claims.
[Begin Videotape]
DONALD TRUMP:
There isn’t any means they may — then they’re incompetent. They’re both dishonest —
CLETA MITCHELL:
Effectively, what did they discover?
DONALD TRUMP:
Then there’s solely two solutions. Dishonesty or incompetence. There’s simply no means. Look, there isn’t any means.
[End Videotape]
ADAM SCHIFF:
However the President did not cease at insinuating that regulation enforcement officers have been both dishonest or incompetent. He went on to counsel that you could possibly be topic to prison legal responsibility on your position within the matter. Earlier than I play that portion of the dialog, I would like to point out you one thing that the President retweeted a few weeks earlier than your name with him.
This is the President retweeting a submit from one in all his allies, a lawyer, who was later sanctioned by a decide in Michigan for making false claims of election fraud. Let’s check out that tweet. The tweet learn quote, “President Trump @realDonaldTrump is a genuinely good man. He does probably not like to fireside individuals.
I wager he dislikes placing individuals in jail, particularly ‘Republicans’. He gave @BrianKempGA & @GASecofState each probability to get it proper. They refused. They are going to quickly be going to jail.” So in your name, this was not the primary time the President was suggesting you could be criminally liable. With that, let’s hearken to this portion of the decision.
[Begin Videotape]
DONALD TRUMP:
I feel you are going to discover that they’re shredding ballots as a result of they need to do away with the ballots as a result of the ballots are unsigned, the ballots are — are corrupt they usually’re model new they usually do not have seals and there is a complete factor with the ballots, however the ballots are corrupt and you are going to discover that they’re — which is completely unlawful.
It is — it is extra unlawful for you than it’s for them. As a result of you already know what they did and you are not reporting it. That is a — you already know, that is a prison — that is a prison offense. And you already know, you possibly can’t let that occur. That is — that is an enormous danger to you and to Ryan, your lawyer. And that is an enormous danger.
[End Videotape]
ADAM SCHIFF:
Secretary Raffensperger, after making a false declare about shredding of ballots, the President steered that you could be be committing a criminal offense by not going alongside together with his claims of election fraud.
And after suggesting that you simply might need prison publicity, President Trump makes his most express ask of the decision.
Let’s play part of that dialog.
[Begin Videotape]
DONALD TRUMP:
So, look, all I wish to do is that this. I simply wish to discover 11,780 votes, which is yet one more than we’ve as a result of we gained the state.
[End Videotape]
ADAM SCHIFF:
Mr. Secretary, was the President right here asking you for precisely what he wished? Yet another vote than his opponent.
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER:
What I knew is that we did not have any votes to seek out. We had continued to look. We investigated. I may have shared the numbers with you. There have been no votes to seek out. That was an correct rely that had been licensed. And as our normal counsel stated, there was no shredding of ballots.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Mr. Secretary, after making this request the President then goes again to the hazard of getting you deny these allegations of fraud. Let’s hearken to that a part of the clip.
[Begin Videotape]
DONALD TRUMP:
And I watched you this morning and also you stated effectively, there was no criminality, however I imply, all of these things is — could be very harmful stuff. Whenever you speak about no criminality, I feel it’s totally harmful so that you can say that.
[End Videotape]
ADAM SCHIFF:
Secretary Raffensperger, you wrote about this in your e-book and also you stated, quote, “I felt then and nonetheless consider at the moment that this was a menace”. Others clearly thought so too as a result of a few of Trump’s extra radical followers have responded as if it was their obligation to hold out this menace. Please inform us what you or your spouse, even your daughter in regulation skilled concerning threats from Trump’s extra radical followers.
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER:
Effectively, after the — after the election, my electronic mail, my cellphone was docked. And so I used to be getting texts all around the nation. After which ultimately my spouse began getting the textual content and hers sometimes got here in a sexualized assaults which have been disgusting. It’s important to perceive that Trish and I, we met in highschool.
We have married over 40 years now. And they also began going after her I feel simply to in all probability put stress on me. Why do not you simply give up stroll away. And in order that occurred. After which some individuals broke into my daughter in regulation’s residence and my son has handed and he or she’s widow and has two children. And so we’re very involved about her security additionally.
ADAM SCHIFF:
And Mr. Secretary, why did not you simply give up and stroll away?
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER:
As a result of I knew that we had adopted the regulation, we had adopted the Structure And I feel typically moments require you to face up and simply take the pictures. You are doing all of your job. And that is all we did. You understand, we simply adopted the regulation and we adopted the Structure. And on the finish of the day, President Trump got here up brief.
However I needed to be devoted to the Structure. And that is what I swore an oath to do.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Throughout the the rest of the decision, the previous President continued to press you to seek out the remaining votes that might guarantee his victory in Georgia. Let’s hearken to somewhat extra.
[Begin Videotape]
DONALD TRUMP:
Why would not you wish to discover the precise reply, Brad, as a substitute of maintain saying that the numbers are proper? So look, are you able to get collectively tomorrow? And Brad, we simply need the reality. It is easy. And – and everybody’s going to look superb if the reality comes out. It is Okay. It takes a short time, however let the reality come out.
And the reality — the true reality is I gained by 400,000 votes, no less than. So — so what are we going to do right here? As a result of I solely want 11,000 votes. Fellas, I want 11,000 votes. Give me a break.
[End Videotape]
ADAM SCHIFF:
4 days after the President’s name to Secretary Raffensperger was January sixth. The President whipped up the gang in entrance of the Ellipse, as soon as once more selling the allegation that Secretary Raffensperger, the President’s personal legal professional normal, had advised him was false. Right here he’s on the Ellipse.
[Begin Videotape]
DONALD TRUMP:
In Fulton County, Republican ballot watchers have been rejected in some instances bodily from the room beneath the false pretense of a pipe burst — water primary burst. Everyone go away. Which we now know was a complete lie. Then election officers pulled packing containers, Democrats, and suitcases of ballots out from beneath a desk, you all it noticed on tv, completely fraudulent, and illegally scanned them for almost two hours, completely unsupervised.
Tens of hundreds of votes. This act coincided with a mysterious vote dump of as much as 100,000 votes for Joe Biden, nearly none for Trump. Oh, that sounds honest. That was at 1:34 am.
[End Videotape]
ADAM SCHIFF:
Mr. Secretary, Mr. Sterling, I wish to thanks on your service to the state of Georgia and to the nation. Speaker Bowers, likewise, I wish to thanks on your service to the State of Arizona and to the nation. You’ve got served not solely your house states, however our nation and our democracy. Mr. Chairman, I yield again.
BENNIE THOMPSON:
Thanks, Mr. Schiff. I thank the witnesses for becoming a member of us at the moment. You at the moment are dismissed.
[Panel Change]
I now welcome to our closing witness this afternoon, Wandrea “Shaye” Moss. Ms. Moss labored within the Division of Registration and Elections in Fulton County, Georgia from 2017 till 2022. In that job, Ms. Moss dealt with voter functions and absentee poll requests, and likewise helped to course of the vote rely for a number of elections.
In December 2020, Ms. Moss and her mom, Ms. Ruby Freeman, grew to become the goal of nasty lies unfold by President Trump and his allies as they sought to overturn the election leads to Georgia.
Ms. Moss and her mom, Ms. Freeman, are two of the unsung heroes on this nation doing the laborious work of maintaining our democracy functioning for each American.
Ms. Moss, welcome. Thanks on your service, and I thanks for being right here at the moment. I’ll now swear you in. Please stand. Do you swear or affirm beneath penalty of perjury that the testimony you are about to present is the reality, the entire reality, and nothing however the reality, so assist you to God?
SHAYE MOSS:
[Off mic]
BENNIE THOMPSON:
Thanks. Please be seated. Let the file mirror that the witness answered within the affirmative. Ms. – Ms. Moss, thanks very a lot for being right here at the moment. I perceive that you’re right here alongside together with your mom at the moment. Would you wish to introduce your mother?
SHAYE MOSS:
[Off mic]
BENNIE THOMPSON:
Hello, Mother. Ms. Moss, at the moment we’ll be asking you about a number of the threats that you simply acquired following the 2020 election. Since you’ve got been an election employee for over ten years, I wish to ask you, in your decade of service, had you ever skilled threats like these earlier than?
SHAYE MOSS:
[Off mic]
BENNIE THOMPSON:
Do not be nervous, simply — I perceive. So — and I wish to make it possible for the file displays that you have performed it for fairly some time and you’ve got by no means acquired a menace, and your reply was no.
Thanks. Pursuant to Part 5C8 of the Home Decision 503, the chair acknowledges the gentleman from California, Mr. Schiff, for questions.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Good afternoon, Ms. Moss. Thanks for being right here. I perceive that you simply have been employed by the Fulton County Registration and Elections Division for greater than ten years, and I perceive that you simply cherished that job. Please inform us what made you so keen on the work that you simply did.
SHAYE MOSS:
Effectively, I’ve all the time been advised by my grandmother how necessary it’s to vote and the way individuals earlier than me, lots of people, older individuals in my household, didn’t have that proper. So, what I cherished most about my job have been the older voters. Youthful individuals may normally do all the things from their telephone or go browsing. However the older voters favored to name.
They favored to speak to you. They wish to get in my card. They favored to know that each election I am right here. And like even school college students, quite a lot of mother and father belief in me to verify their youngster doesn’t need to drive residence. They will get an absentee poll. They’ll vote. And I actually discovered pleasure in that. I favored being the one which, you already know, if somebody cannot navigate my voter web page or, you already know, they need a brand new precinct card, they do not have a duplicate machine or laptop or all of that, I can put it within the mail for them.
I used to be excited all the time about sending out all of the absentee ballots for the aged, disabled individuals. I even bear in mind driving to an hospital to present somebody her absentee utility. That is — that is what I cherished essentially the most.
ADAM SCHIFF:
So, you actually loved serving to individuals vote and take part, and — and that was one thing, the precise to vote, that your grandmother taught you was valuable.
SHAYE MOSS:
Sure.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Effectively, I do know the occasions that we’re right here to speak about at the moment are extremely troublesome to relive. Your proud service as an election employee took a dramatic activate the day that Rudy Giuliani publicized the video of you and your mom counting ballots on election evening. President Trump, Rudy Giuliani, and others claimed on the premise of this video that you simply and your mom have been someway concerned in a plot to kick out observers, convey suitcases of false ballots for Biden into the world, after which run them by means of the machines a number of occasions. None of that was true, was it?
SHAYE MOSS:
None of it.
ADAM SCHIFF:
I would like to point out you a number of the statements that Rudy Giuliani made in a second listening to earlier than the Georgia state legislator per week after that video clip from State Farm Area was first circulated by Mr. Giuliani and President Trump. I wish to advise viewers that these statements are fully false and likewise deeply disturbing.
[Begin videotape]
RUDY GIULIANI:
Tape earlier within the day of Ruby Freeman and SHAYE Freeman Moss and one different gentleman fairly clearly surreptitiously passing round USB ports as if they’re vials of heroin or cocaine. I imply, it is our — it is apparent to anybody who’s a prison investigator or prosecutor they’re engaged in surreptitious criminality once more that day, and that is per week in the past, they usually’re nonetheless strolling round Georgia mendacity.
They need to have been — they need to have been — ought to have been questioned already. Their locations of labor, their houses, ought to have been looked for proof of ballots, for Ellis — proof of USB ports, for proof of voter fraud.
[End videotape]
ADAM SCHIFF:
That video was from Rudy Giuliani’s look at a Georgia State Senate listening to on December 10.
How did you turn out to be conscious — how did you first turn out to be conscious that Rudy Giuliani, the president’s lawyer, was accusing you and your mom of a criminal offense?
SHAYE MOSS:
I used to be at work like all the time, and the previous chief, Mr. Jones, requested me to come back to his workplace. And after I went to his workplace, the previous director, Ms. Varon [Ph], was in there, they usually confirmed me a video on their laptop. It was similar to a really brief clip of us working at State Farm, and it had somebody on the video, like, speaking over the video, simply saying that we have been doing issues that we weren’t presupposed to do, simply mendacity all through the video.
And that is after I first discovered about it.
ADAM SCHIFF:
And have been there social media posts that they confirmed you responding to these false claims?
SHAYE MOSS:
Effectively, when — after I noticed the video, in fact the very first thing that I noticed it was, like, why? What — why is — why are they doing this? What is going on on? They usually, you already know, simply advised me that Trump and his allies weren’t happy with the result of the election, they usually — they have been getting quite a lot of threats and being harassed on-line and requested me, you already know, have I been receiving something, and I have to examine on my mother.
And I advised them I — you already know, I used to be, like, the place? The place have they — you already know, the place have you ever been getting these threats? I — I do not consider I’ve any. And Mr. Jones advised me, like, they’re attacking his Fb. And I do not actually use Fb. I’ve one so I went to the Fb app. And I am simply type of panicky at this level as a result of this has by no means occurred to me, and my mother is concerned.
I am, like, her solely youngster. So, I am simply — requested him, like, the place are the messages? All I see is the feeds.
Like, how do you get to the messages? And he stated it is one other icon in your telephone that claims Messenger. And I went to that icon, and it was simply quite a lot of horrible issues there.
ADAM SCHIFF:
And people horrible issues, did they embody threats?
SHAYE MOSS:
Sure, quite a lot of threats wishing dying upon me, telling me that, you already know, I am — I will be in jail with my mom, and saying issues like be glad it is 2020 and never 1920, sure.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Had been — have been quite a lot of these threats and — and vile feedback racist in nature?
SHAYE MOSS:
Numerous them have been racist, quite a lot of them have been simply hateful, sure, sir.
ADAM SCHIFF:
In one of many movies we simply watched, Mr. Giuliani accused you and your mom of spending some form of USB drive to one another. What was your mother truly handing you on that video?
SHAYE MOSS:
A ginger mint.
ADAM SCHIFF:
It wasn’t simply Rudy Giuliani. We heard President Trump make these false allegations repeatedly throughout his name with Secretary Raffensperger. Let’s hearken to a portion of what he needed to say about you and your mom.
[Begin videotape]
DONALD TRUMP:
We had no less than 18,000. That is on tape. We had them counted very painstakingly, 18,000 voters having to do with the Ruby Freeman. That is — she’s a vote scammer, an expert vote scammer and hustler.
[End videotape]
ADAM SCHIFF:
Donald Trump attacked you and your mom, utilizing her identify 18 occasions on that decision, 18 occasions. Ms. Moss, are you able to describe what you skilled listening to former President Trump assault you and your mom in a name with the Georgia Secretary of State?
SHAYE MOSS:
I felt horrible. I felt prefer it was all my fault, like if I might have by no means determined to be an elections employee, like, I may have — like, the rest, however that is what I made a decision to do. And now persons are mendacity and spreading rumors and lies and attacking my mother, I am her solely youngster, going to my grandmother’s home.
I am her solely grandchild. And — and my child is simply — I felt so dangerous. I — I simply felt dangerous for my mother, and I felt horrible for selecting this job and being the one which all the time desires to assist and all the time there, by no means lacking not one election. I simply felt prefer it was — it was my fault for placing my household on this state of affairs.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Effectively, it — it wasn’t your fault. Your mom was form sufficient to come back communicate with us earlier. Let’s hearken to her story in her phrases.
[Begin videotape]
RUBY FREEMAN:
My identify is Ruby Freeman. I’ve all the time believed it when God says that he’ll make your identify nice, however this isn’t the best way it was presupposed to be. I may have by no means imagined the occasions that adopted the presidential election 2020. For my complete skilled life, I used to be Woman Ruby. My group in Georgia the place I used to be born and lived my complete life knew me as Woman Ruby.
I constructed my very own enterprise round that identify, LaRuby’s Distinctive Treasures, a pop up store catering to girls with distinctive fashions. I wore a shirt that proudly proclaimed that I used to be and I’m Woman Ruby.
Really, I had that shirt on — I had that shirt in each coloration. I wore that shirt on Election Day 2020. I have never worn it since, and I am going to by no means put on it once more.
Now I will not even introduce myself by my identify anymore. I get nervous after I stumble upon somebody I do know within the grocery retailer who says my identify. I am fearful about who’s listening. I get nervous when I’ve to present my identify for meals orders. I am all the time involved of who’s round me. I’ve misplaced my identify, and I’ve misplaced my popularity.
RUBY FREEMAN:
I’ve misplaced my sense of safety, all as a result of a gaggle of individuals, beginning with quantity 45 and his ally RudyGiuliani, determined to scapegoat me and my daughter Shea to push their very own lies about how thepresidential election was stolen.
[End Videotape]
ADAM SCHIFF:
Ms. Moss, how has this expertise of being focused by the previous president and his allies affected your life?
SHAYE MOSS:
This turned my life the wrong way up. I not give out my enterprise card. I do not switch calls. I — I do not need anybody realizing my identify. I do not wish to go anyplace with my mother as a result of she may yell my identify out over the grocery aisle or one thing. I do not go to the grocery retailer in any respect. I have never been anyplace in any respect.
I’ve gained about 60 kilos. I simply do not do nothing anymore. I do not wish to go anyplace. I second guess all the things that I do. It is affected my life in a — in a serious means. In each means. All due to lies. For me doing my job, identical factor I have been doing eternally.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Your mom additionally advised this committee about how she needed to go away her own residence for her security and go into hiding after the FBI advised her that it could not be secure for her there earlier than January sixth and till the inauguration. Let’s hearken to a clip of her story in her personal phrases.
[Begin Videotape]
RUBY FREEMAN:
Across the week of January sixth, the FBI knowledgeable me that I wanted to depart my residence for security. And I left my residence for security round that point.
UNKNOWN:
Understood. How — how lengthy did you keep out, did you, you already know, stay exterior of your house on your personal security?
RUBY FREEMAN:
I — I stayed away from my residence for about two months. It was horrible. I felt homeless. I felt,you already know, I can not consider — I can not consider this individual has precipitated this a lot injury to me and my household. To have to depart my residence that I’ve lived there for 21 years. And, you already know, I am having to have my neighbors be careful for me. You understand, and I’ve to go and stick with any person.
It was laborious. It was horrible.
UNKNOWN:
And the — your dialog with the FBI about needing to depart your house on your — your individual security or maybe recommending it. Do you bear in mind was there a selected menace that prompted that or was it the buildup of — of threats that you simply had acquired?
RUBY FREEMAN:
What prompted it was — was on the point of — January sixth was about to come back. And they didn’t need me to be at residence due to all of the threats and all the things that I had gotten. They did not need me to be there in worry of, you already know, that individuals have been coming to my residence. And I had quite a lot of that, in order that they did not need me to be there simply in case one thing occurred.
I requested how lengthy am I gonna need to be gone? They stated no less than till the inauguration.
[EndVideotape]
ADAM SCHIFF:
Ms. Moss, I perceive that individuals as soon as confirmed up at your grandmother’s home. Inform us about that have.
SHAYE MOSS:
I acquired a name from my grandmother. This lady is my all the things. I’ve by no means even heard her or seen her cry ever in my life. And she or he referred to as me screaming on the high of her lungs, like, “Shaye, Shaye, oh my gosh, Shaye.” Simply freaking me out saying that there are individuals at her residence they usually, you already know,they knocked on the door and naturally she opened it seeing who was there, who it was.
They usually simply began pushing their means by means of, claiming that they have been coming in to make a citizen’s arrest. They wanted to seek out me and my mother. They knew we have been there. And she or he was simply, like,screaming and did not know what to do. And I wasn’t there. So, you already know, I simply felt so helpless and so horrible for her.
And she or he was simply screaming. I advised her to shut the door. Do not open the door for — for anybody. And,you already know, she’s a 70 one thing I will not say 12 months outdated lady. And she or he — she does not like having restrictions. She desires to reply the door. She likes to get her steps in strolling across the neighborhood. And I needed to inform her, like, you possibly can’t try this.
You — you need to be secure. You understand, she would inform me that at evening individuals would simply constantly ship pizzas time and again to her residence. You understand, they usually was anticipating her to pay for these giant quantities of pizzas. And she or he went by means of quite a bit that she did not need to. And as soon as once more it made me simply really feel so horrible.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Along with the private impression this expertise has had on you and your loved ones, one of many issues that I discover most annoying is how these lies discourage longtime election staff from persevering with to do that necessary work. Inform us in the event you would, of the opposite election staff proven in that State Farm Area video and their supervisors, what number of are nonetheless election staff in Fulton County?
SHAYE MOSS:
There isn’t a everlasting election employee or supervisor in that video that is nonetheless there.
ADAM SCHIFF:
And did you find yourself main your — leaving your place as effectively?
SHAYE MOSS:
Sure, I — I left.
ADAM SCHIFF:
Ms. Moss, I wish to thanks for coming in to talk with us and I thanks on your service to our democracy. What we’ve simply performed is a very horrible and appalling pattern, however only a pattern of the issues that have been stated about you and your mom following the election. I wish to say how very sorry Ithink all of us are for what you’ve got gone by means of.
And tragically you are not alone. Different election staff across the nation have additionally been the topic of lies and threats. No election staff must be topic to such heinous remedy only for doing their job. Along with your permission, I wish to give your mom the final phrase.
SHAYE MOSS:
Sure.
ADAM SCHIFF:
We’re simply going to play the tape.
[Begin Videotape]
RUBY FREEMAN:
There may be nowhere I really feel secure. Nowhere. Are you aware the way it feels to have the President of the UnitedStates to focus on you? The President of the US is meant to symbolize each American, notto goal one. However he focused me, Woman Rudy, a small enterprise proprietor, a mom, a proud Americancitizen who stand as much as assist Fulton County run an election in the midst of the pandemic.
[End Videotape]
ADAM SCHIFF:
Thanks, Ms. Moss. Thanks, Ms. Freeman, or as America now is aware of her, Woman Ruby, on your service to Fulton County, Georgia, our nation, and our democracy. Mr. Chairman, I yield again.
BENNIE THOMPSON:
Thanks, Mr. Schiff. Ms. Moss?
SHAYE MOSS:
Sure, Sir.
BENNIE THOMPSON:
I wish to thanks for sharing with us the very troubling story of what you and your mom skilled. The harassment of election staff such as you merely for doing all of your obligation as public servants poses a menace to our democratic course of. Your testimony is a crucial contribution to the work of our committee and serves as a reminder to all of us that the protection of native election officers is significant to making sure that our elections are all the time free and honest.
I wish to thank our witness for becoming a member of us at the moment. The members of the choose committee could have further questions for at the moment’s witness and we ask that you simply reply expeditiously in writing to these questions. With out objection, members will likely be permitted 10 enterprise days to submit statements for the file, together with opening remarks and extra questions for the witness.
With out objection, the Chair acknowledges the gentleman from California, Mr. Schiff , for a closing assertion.
ADAM SCHIFF:
For greater than 200 years, our democracy has been distinguished by the peaceable switch of energy.When an American raises their proper hand and takes the Presidential oath of workplace, they’re reworked from an strange citizen into essentially the most highly effective individual on this planet, the President. This Is an superior pire — energy to amass.
It’s much more superior when is handed on peacefully. When George Washington relinquished the Workplace of the Presidency, it set a precedent that served as a beacon for different nations struggling towards tyranny. When Ronald Reagan described it as a type of miracle within the eyes of the world he was precisely proper.
Different international locations use violence to grab and maintain energy, however not in the US, not in America.When Donald Trump used the facility of the Presidency to attempt to keep in workplace after shedding the election to Joe Biden, he broke that sacred and centuries outdated covenant. Whether or not his actions have been prison will in the end be for others to resolve.
However what he did was indisputably unconstitutional. It was unpatriotic. And it was basically un-American. And when he used the facility of his Presidency to place the big stress on state,native — and native elections officers and his personal Vice President, it grew to become downright harmful.
On January sixth that stress grew to become lethal.
Ruby Freeman stated the President is meant to guard each American, not goal them. And she or he is correct. If essentially the most highly effective individual on this planet can convey the total weight of the Presidency down on an strange citizen who’s merely doing her job with a lie as massive and heavy as a mountain, who amongst usis secure?
None of us is. None of us. In metropolis councils and city councils, on college boards and election boards, from the Congress to the courts, devoted public servants are leaving their posts due to dying threats to them and to their households. This isn’t who we’re. It should not turn out to be who we’re.
Our democracy held as a result of brave individuals like these you heard from at the moment put their oath to the Structure above their loyalty to at least one man or to at least one celebration.
The system held, however barely. And the query stays, will it maintain once more? If we’re capable of talk something throughout these hearings, I hope it’s this: we’ve been blessed past measure to stay on this planet’s best democracy.
That may be a legacy to be pleased with and to cherish. However it isn’t one to be taken with no consideration.
That we’ve lived in a democracy for greater than 200 years doesn’t imply we will achieve this tomorrow. We should reject violence. We should embrace our Structure with the reverence it deserves, take our oath of workplace and duties as residents critically, knowledgeable by the information of proper and fallacious, andarmed with not more than the facility of our concepts and the reality stick with it this venerable experiment in self-governance.
Thanks, Mr. Chairman. And I yield again.
BENNIE THOMPSON:
With out objection, the Chair acknowledges the gentlewoman from Wyoming, Ms. Cheney, for a closing assertion.
LIZ CHENEY:
Thanks very a lot, Mr. Chairman. Woman Ruby and Shaye, thanks on your braveness. Thanks on your energy. Thanks for — for being right here at the moment. It — it means a lot for everybody to listen to your story. So thanks for that. We now have had large testimony at the moment. We have been reminded that we’re a nation of legal guidelines.
And we have been reminded by you and by Speaker Bowers and Secretary of State Raffensperger and Mr. Sterling that our establishments do not defend themselves. People try this. And we have reminded that it takes public servants. It takes individuals who’ve made a dedication to our system to defend our system. We even have been reminded what it means to take an oath beneath God to the Structure, what it means to defend the Structure.
And we have been reminded by Speaker Bowers that our Structure is certainly a divinely impressed doc. And so it has been an honor to spend time with you and with our earlier witnesses right here at the moment. So far, greater than 30 witnesses referred to as earlier than this committee haven’t performed what you’ve got performed,however have invoked their Fifth Modification rights towards self-incrimination.
Roger Stone took the fifth. Common Michael Flynn took the fifth. John Eastman took the fifth. Others like Steve Bannon and Peter Navarro merely refused to adjust to lawful subpoenas. They usually have been indicted. Mark Meadows has hidden behind President Trump’s claims of government privilege and immunity from subpoenas.
We’re engaged now in litigation with Mr. Meadows. The American individuals in our hearings have heard from Invoice Barr, Jeff Rosen, Richard Donoghue, and plenty of others who stood up and did what is correct. And they’re going to hear extra of that testimony quickly. However the American individuals haven’t but heard from Mr. Trump’s former White Home counsel, Pat Cipollone.
Our committee is for certain that Donald Trump doesn’t need Mr. Cipollone to testify right here. Certainly our proof reveals that Mr. Cipollone and his workplace tried to do what was proper. They tried to cease plenty of President Trump’s plans for January sixth. At present and in our coming hearings you’ll hear testimony from different Trump White Home workers explaining what Mr. Cipollone stated and did together with on January sixth. However we expect the American individuals deserve to listen to from Mr. Cipollone personally.
He ought to seem earlier than this committee, and we’re working to safe his testimony. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I yield again.
BENNIE THOMPSON:
Individuals reply the decision to public service in such alternative ways. Some run for workplace. Some volunteer to make it possible for neighbors can get to their voting places. Some work at polling websites to assist Election Day go easily. Some look into issues to ensure our elections are safe and correct, simply to call a couple of.
As I discussed at first of this listening to, after we speak about our democratic establishments we’re speaking about these people and plenty of others who do these jobs throughout the nation. They symbolize the spine of our democracy at its most necessary moments: when the residents forged their votes and when these votes are counted.
We have heard the tales of their braveness. They’ve earned the thanks of a grateful nation. However for Donald Trump, these witnesses and others like them have been one other roadblock to his try to cling to energy. On Thursday, we’ll hear about one other a part of that scheme, his try to corrupt the — the nation’s high regulation enforcement physique, the Justice Division, to help his try to overturn the election.
Simply as we heard at the moment that Donald Trump was deeply concerned in a scheme to stress state officers to overturn the election outcomes, we’ll hear — we are going to hear on Thursday that Donald Trump was additionally the driving power behind the hassle to deprave the Justice Division. Hearken to this clip from the previous Appearing Legal professional Common Richard Donoghue.
[Begin Videotape]
RICHARD DONOGHUE:
The President stated suppose I do that. Suppose I exchange him, Jeff Rosen, with him, Jeff Clark. What do you do? And I stated Sir, I might resign instantly. There isn’t a means I am serving one minute beneath this man, Jeff Clark.
[End Videotape]
BENNIE THOMPSON:
You may hear from Mr. Donoghue in individual on Thursday as my colleague Mr. Kinzinger presents particulars about this plan. The Chair requests these within the listening to room stay seated till the Capitol Policehave escorted members from the room. With out objection the committee stands adjourned.
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