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Katie: Hey, and welcome to the wellness mama podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com and wellnesse.com. That’s wellness with an E on the tip. And I’m right here right this moment with Leah Segedie, who helps girls and mothers make safer shopper decisions for his or her households. And he or she is the creator at mamavation.com. And on this episode, we discuss particularly about one thing known as PFAS, that are chemical substances which are present in every kind of family merchandise. We go deep on this right this moment, however we discuss what they’re, why they’re thought-about ceaselessly chemical substances, how there are over 10,000 within the setting, and the way they have an effect on the physique in numerous other ways. We discuss how testing could be very nuanced, and the way even pure and natural merchandise can have traces of those chemical substances, find out how to keep away from them with out going loopy and a lot extra, very, very fact-packed episode. I do know I discovered so much. I hope you’ll too. So let’s be a part of Leah. Leah, welcome again. How are you?
Leah: Hey, thanks for having me on Katie, so good to see you once more too. I by no means get to see you.
Katie: Likewise, I like that we do video now. For anyone listening who didn’t know, there’s video on YouTube that you simply guys can truly watch our faces whereas we discuss. I feel most individuals nonetheless hear on podcast apps, but it surely’s enjoyable to get to see your face. Really feel prefer it makes it extra private. And such as you stated, it’s been some time since we bought to catch up. And we’re going to get to catch up in-depth on a really specific situation. However earlier than we do, I’ve a notice in my present notes that you’ve hip dysplasia and are principally a human pretzel. So I might simply love to listen to a bit bit about this story first.
Leah: Okay, so there’s a genetic hip situation in my household. I’ve it, my mom has it. We don’t know additional than that as a result of my mom is adopted, but it surely’s hip dysplasia. Now, most individuals have heard of hip dysplasia as a result of they’ve a canine. And that canine has hip dysplasia, and it’s a bit wiener canine or one thing. And so the those who have heard about it are like, “Sure, my canine has that.” And no, I’m not a canine. However sure, that illness does occur in people. However there’s two varieties of those who it’s actually widespread in, Native American Cherokee Indian, and the Sami, who’re in Norway, Finland, and Sweden, they usually’re the reindeer folks. And I completely come from a Nordic, so it’s completely coming from the Sami. And so they have a lot of it, it’s been written up in Nationwide Geographic and stuff, so you’ll be able to Google it. However principally, what it means is my hips come out of the socket, there’s about this a lot room in my socket that’s simply open. So I can simply pop it out of socket every time I would like.
Now, once I’m operating, that’s dangerous, as a result of it doesn’t really feel good. However the cool factor is, it makes me very limber. When you can think about me being pregnant, like 9 months pregnant, and having the ability to put my foot again right here once I’m stretching. Like private trainers freak out after they see this proper? And it’s completely cool for me. So I’m very versatile and I could make myself a pretzel by placing each of my toes right here. But when I do it, if I get the second up, I simply go ahead, so the one place I wish to do it’s within the mattress. As a result of , I don’t have the…I simply seem like a humorous toy once I do this. However it is vitally attention-grabbing and humorous to speak about. However sure, I can put my toes proper again right here and like a human pretzel. Completely.
Katie: That’s humorous. And considered one of my…
Leah: If nobody has recognized me then now they’re simply gonna know that I’m Leah Segedie, the human pretzel, which I discover wonderful.
Katie: Properly, and considered one of my favourite journey reminiscences of all time was truly visiting northern Finland and getting to fulfill the Sami tribe. They’re a few of the most fascinating folks I’ve ever met and completely lovely the best way their way of life is, very totally different than mine in a really heat local weather. And it was so, so cool to see. In order that’s cool and you’ve got a tie to them as properly.
Leah: Yeah, I’ve a tie them after which…however I’ve extra of my kin that I do know which are in Sweden, however they’re extra within the metropolis now. And Bergen, Norway too, I’ve numerous kin which are in Bergen, which is admittedly cool to go to as a result of the fjords are simply wonderful. It’s a must to go there as soon as in your lifetime.
Katie: I’ll put it on the record. And I really feel like I might discuss that every one day lengthy. However we even have one other essential matter that I feel will likely be actually related to lots of people listening, even when they don’t understand it’s going to be so related to them. And I do know that you’ve been doing an excellent, tremendous, tremendous deep dive into this matter, which is why I used to be so excited to speak to you about them right this moment. So I’d say let’s begin actually, actually broad and simply outline the important thing time period that we’re going to speak so much about right this moment, which is I hope I pronounced it proper, PFAS?
Leah: It’s known as, you’ll be able to confer with it as PFAS or PFAS. However PFAS might be what you’re going to listen to most individuals say P-F-A-S, so it’s simply an abbreviation they usually’re simply placing it collectively. So primarily, once we’re speaking about PFAS, we’re speaking about over ten thousand chemical substances and a chemical class. And so they all have fluorine and carbon in them of their bond. However you’ve heard of those chemical substances as a result of it’s all of the stain-resistant, waterproof, grease-proof chemical substances that we’ve got been form of swimming in for many years. Now, these chemical substances was considered protected, , inert, like okay, however within the final couple many years, we discovered that they’re persistent, which implies they don’t go away. Scientists don’t even know what the half-life of those chemical substances are. That’s why they’re known as ceaselessly chemical substances. These ceaselessly chemical substances can final in your physique for a few years or many years. They only actually don’t know the extent of all of it and why as a result of there’s 10,000 of them and the unbiased scientists who have been coming within the backend attempting to see in the event that they’re protected, it’s been so much and lot numerous dangerous information. So when you’ve heard about carpet not having PFAS in it anymore, or clothes corporations popping out and, , engaged on PFAS options, or in case you have thrown out your Teflon cookware, that’s one other instance. These are all examples of PFAS chemical substances that we’ve got had in our lives for many years. And now we perceive how extremely problematic they’re.
So what I’m doing proper now could be, and thru Mamavation, is admittedly attempting to construct up some consciousness round girls, in order that they know what to search for and know find out how to keep away from them. And the toughest a part of this example is it’s unattainable to utterly keep away from them. You would need to reside…you couldn’t even go to, I imply, Iceland, or the place the polar bears are, you’d nonetheless discover them there. So that you actually can’t keep away from them. That’s as a result of they’re persistent, they usually get in all places. However what we will do is we will make educated choices and decisions in our residence, and decrease the quantity that we’re uncovered to, and most of all our kids are uncovered to as a result of that’s the place that is actually, actually essential is the subsequent technology.
Katie: Yeah, I do know, we’re very aligned on that, and the significance of, in lots of areas, bettering issues for our youngsters. What are a few of the problematic areas we see in relation to these and well being? I do know, like, we’re nonetheless doing analysis on this and, such as you stated, numerous this analysis is simply within the final couple of many years. However what do we all know so far as how this impacts human well being?
Leah: So initially, it’s an androgen mimicker. So it goes into your physique and your physique truly thinks it’s a hormone for males. It thinks it’s testosterone, so it thinks it’s androgen. So for boys, little boys and males, that is worse than for women, it’s actually dangerous for women, but it surely’s worse for males. So simply give it some thought when it comes to that, you don’t want further testosterone in your physique. However when you’re a person, and also you get further testosterone in your physique, your physique says, “Okay, accomplished, I’ve produced sufficient.” And so for a person, it brings down your testosterone, which is one thing that’s actually dangerous when you’re attempting to have a child, otherwise you’re attempting to breed, . The opposite factor that it does, it’s actually problematic, that’s linked with all the things else is it kills your immune system, primarily, it brings down your immunity so that you simply can’t struggle off illnesses.
Now, right here’s an instance of one thing of how that is occurring. Now, I don’t understand how many individuals are professional or anti-vaccine or no matter. However what I’ll say, and that is very, very, very sound science, that the extra PFAS you’ve in your system, the much less probably vaccinations will work inside your physique as a result of it’s bringing down your immune system, your physique simply can’t do it. In order that’s a few of the stuff that they’re discovering, oh, inside the final three, 4 years is that they’re taking a look at infants, and the way infants reply. And I don’t know in the event that they’ve accomplished this in adults, however they’ve positively accomplished in youngsters. And so they know that the extra you’ve in your physique, and bear in mind, this could occur in utero since you’re pregnant, the much less probably you’ll be able to reply to one thing like a vaccine, or some other kind of remedy that’s like that, that’s imagined to carry up your immune system. In order that’s one factor you actually wish to watch out about.
They’re additionally linking it to metabolism points and kind 2 diabetes. So that they’re linking it to kind 2 diabetes, particularly in girls. So there’s numerous girls strolling round who’re having points and it could have one thing to do with the quantity of PFAS that they’ve of their system. After which, after all, cancers, there’s numerous cancers that is linked to, like prostate most cancers and people sorts of issues, which is sensible when you understand it really works like an artificial androgen in your physique. In order that’s form of the totality of it. The issue that we’re actually, actually coping with is, , what’s occurring to us can also be occurring to the earth. It’s persistent on the market, it’s getting within the soil, it’s getting within the groundwater, it’s getting in our shopper merchandise, it’s getting in all types of issues.
And so to be aware that that is on the market, however not petrified, proper, since you don’t wish to stress your self out to the quantity that you simply’re making your self sick, proper? However on the earth of, these are chemical substances that I wish to keep away from, this can be a 10, and this is sort of a 3, PFAS is greater up there, it’s extra of an 8, 9, or 10 is what I might have a look at first earlier than you determine some…I don’t know, when you’re apprehensive about one thing like sodium benzoate in your shampoo versus PFAS in one thing, don’t even fear concerning the sodium benzoate. You understand what I imply? Like, these varieties of issues. That’s an even bigger class that you simply simply wish to keep away from.
Katie: Yeah. So many essential factors I feel you’ve simply made. And I feel what I might simply spotlight is whether or not individuals are in favor of vaccines or they’re not, I feel that’s its personal separate dialog, however the essential similarity there’s that in each circumstances, whether or not you’re speaking pure immunity or vaccine immunity, you want a functioning immune system to create that impact. And so I really feel like that’s truly a commonality. It’s really easy for that to develop into a polarizing situation. However in each circumstances, it’s like how will we help the immune system in pure methods in both of these circumstances, and that’s one thing we will truly all agree on. And so this can be a piece of that puzzle. I consider numerous similarities like plastic-type chemical substances, as an illustration, as properly, these are very problematic, they’ve now saturated the planet, they’re storing in our our bodies, which additionally brings up the query, how if potential in any respect will we get these out of our physique as soon as we’ve been uncovered?
Leah: You may’t. Properly, right here’s the exhausting factor, it builds up. So it’s a kind of chemical substances that we don’t have any proof of something having the ability to take it out of our physique. That’s the exhausting half. Proper? And that’s absolutely the fact. If folks inform you the other, I don’t understand how supported that’s by the information, proper? So that is a kind of distinctive chemical substances that doesn’t function like different chemical substances, , numerous these nasty, persistent chemical substances are trapped in fats. So when you can pull it out via the fats, then you’ll be able to pull it out of the physique, that is repelled by fats. So it simply actually operates very in another way in your physique, and the reply is they only don’t know.
So what the best-case state of affairs is true now could be to keep away from it as a lot as you’ll be able to, select merchandise that don’t have it, be very cautious of it if you’re pregnant, after which when your youngsters are about 5, and so up till that, that’s if you’re simply , in search of it, avoiding it. After that, you don’t need it, however after all, , hormone-disrupting chemical substances are worse throughout hormone adjustments through the physique. So the worst time is prenatal. In order that’s when all the things is altering and it right down to the second, the minute, , issues bought to only align proper. The second half is if you’re out and it’s 5 years, , your physique has like pure defenses it builds up doesn’t actually have that till you’re over 5.
Now, the third time in your life, for ladies particularly, and for males, is if you undergo the change, proper, you begin to develop into a lady otherwise you develop into a person, that’s a time when, as a mom, you wish to begin to consider this, despite the fact that they don’t care, you continue to wish to give it some thought, proper? After which in the direction of the tip of your life, for ladies it’s if you undergo the change once more and also you cease having the ability to, , have a child. And for males, I don’t know when males undergo, , that change, somebody ought to inform me, however I’ve three boys, it could be good to know, truly. However these are a very powerful occasions so that you can begin desirous about these items, when these varieties of folks… when you’ve youngsters in the home.
Katie: Yeah, and I feel the steadiness, such as you stated is essential, like keep away from it every time potential, however to not the purpose that it’s inflicting stress, which we additionally know is extraordinarily dangerous to well being. After which from there, I all the time consider, particularly once we’re speaking about chemical substances, we don’t truly know find out how to get out of the physique. It’s like help the pure detox pathways in any manner potential. After which attempt to preserve a balanced stress stage and never be stressing about it past that. So I’m an enormous fan of issues like sauna, simply primary hydration, consuming meals like inexperienced leafy greens that bind to extra phytoestrogens and different chemical substances within the physique.
Leah: And poop, proper? As a result of all of the dangerous stuff comes out if you poop, you wish to do this, proper? I’m speaking about poop and this, poop and PFAS is hilarious. However we don’t know if it comes…I imply, we simply…, they haven’t accomplished research on that but. However I feel it’s as a result of they’re so overwhelmed proper now attempting to determine the ins and the outs of all these chemical substances. You have been saying one thing about plasticizers. Mockingly, it’s additionally a plasticizer. As a result of there’s an entire class known as PTFE, which is on these Teflon pans, which is form of like, which is a polymer. And satirically, , once I do testing, there are not any exams to search out all of those polymers. So once I’m testing for these chemical substances, and I’m in search of over 10,000 of them, the form of testing that I’m working is extra of a spot verify. It’s trying to see if these chemical parts are there, it’s not telling you what particular PFAS it’s as a result of it’s unattainable. There’s solely about 90 chemical substances you’ll be able to check for at a very good business lab. Most of those labs you could check for will solely be capable of check for possibly 16 to 30. However it’s in a college lab, they will in all probability discover about 150, however that’s it for compound testing and discovering out precisely what it’s.
The opposite possibility is what you see numerous NGOs doing and us doing is we search for fluorine in any product, proper? And so then you definitely function one other check that pulls out the fluoride from the fluorine, which is the pure and leaves the artifical, and we search for one thing known as natural fluorine, which isn’t a beautiful factor. Once I say natural when it comes to chemistry, it doesn’t imply the natural requirements. No, it form of means the other, it means man-made. So I’m in search of the man-made fluorine. Once you discover that, there’s form of solely two choices. One is PFAS, which it’s very prone to be, the opposite one is fluorinated prescribed drugs as a result of 25% of pharmaceutical merchandise are all fluorinated, so these are the 2 issues that I might be discovering. The testing that I function is a very excessive check. It appears at 10 elements per million. Now, despite the fact that I’m saying elements per million, and that’s actually tiny, it’s truly a bigger quantity as a result of after they’re testing in water, they’re wanting all the best way down within the elements per trillion, which is sort of a drop in three Olympic measurement swimming pools, proper? And so mine could be possibly a drop in an everyday pool or one thing like that, proper? So we’re taking a look at far bigger, and we’re not wanting in water, we’re wanting in shopper merchandise, like private care, something that may be burned, primarily, as a result of that’s how the check is, burns issues, . So if it might probably’t be burned, we will’t use that testing methodology. Then there’s different issues we will have a look at.
However it’s additionally actually troublesome to search out, and , the devils within the particulars, when you can’t discover it and isolate it, then can they regulate it? I don’t know. In order that’s the place I really feel like I’m form of standing within the center right here. I’m sending numerous merchandise off to the lab and I’m beginning with merchandise that we might buy that may be pure, , sending these off first as a affirmation as a result of my viewers desires to know concerning the issues that they’re already buying first, after which they wish to find out about all the things else. And you’d be form of shocked, within the pure trade, how a lot of this chemical we’re going to search out. There’s numerous causes behind that.
One of many causes is, like as an illustration, when you’re shopping for natural meals, there’s nothing within the natural requirements to stop them from utilizing FDA-approved components in manufacturing. And so they don’t have any requirements behind that, and I simply confirmed that once more final week as a result of I used to be, , emailing them, I’m like, “Oh, I can’t discover something within the requirements.” And so they’re like, “It’s not there.” And so they’ll say to me one thing like, “Properly, it’s best to, , strain the FDA to take these out of…, as permitted oblique components, as a substitute of coming down on us.” And I’m like, “I feel it’s best to in all probability repair this within the requirements, I simply suppose it’s best to.” However that’s simply my opinion.
So it may be in something, primarily. And when you check out the FDA web site, on what’s permitted for a meals contact kind of substance, there’s numerous polymers which are permitted, polymeric PFAS. So meaning these are PFAS chemical substances which are made up of all these several types of monomers. So it’s prefer it’s a PFAS fabricated from PFAS, and in addition, but it surely turns into like a plastic, proper? So we’re going to see this, in all probability, I’m considering, since there’s so lots of them which are permitted by the FDA, that’s in all probability what we might in all probability be seeing in meals, , kind of producing. I’ve by no means been in a position to isolate and discover it as a result of these exams are simply not obtainable. However I preserve seeing it in every kind of merchandise. And I’m actually completely happy to do that testing as a result of not solely do I wish to know, however as soon as I began testing, all people else needed to know as properly. So it’s an amazing service that we’re in a position to present for folks at Mamavation. I’m actually completely happy to have the ability to do that.
Katie: I’m going to go line by line with some widespread merchandise and like, undergo what you discovered on the testing. However earlier than we get into the extra detailed half, I might love to listen to what are a few of the widespread sources within the residence setting that some folks listening…particularly lots of people listening are already extra naturally minded, like your viewers as properly. What could be a few of the widespread sources and the way can we begin to keep away from it within the residence?
Leah: So the primary place goes to be you’re going to eat it and drink it, that’s the place they nonetheless suppose you’re getting the overwhelming majority of that is. Numerous this may be cookware, so in case you have Teflon-based cookware or nonstick cookware in any respect, I might keep away from that. Clearly, I do know you’ve bought nice content material about that and I’ve bought content material about that, that have been form of shoving you guys off of nano-based cookware and nonstick cookware. In order that’s one place. You additionally wish to search for it in your small kitchen home equipment, as a result of you can find it in issues like air fryers, you’ll discover it in issues like toasters, and it’s not on the meals contact floor, it’s outdoors. And the loopy factor about that’s if it’s on the partitions on the surface, if it will get too scorching, it might probably disperse into that air so it’s nonetheless form of a difficulty. So we’re proper now working via these merchandise for air fryers and every kind of various issues. I might simply say name up the corporate, look and double-check to ensure that they’re not including something to those merchandise on the surfaces. Positively not meals contact, meals contact could be the primary half, however that’s what I search for.
Meals packaging is one other situation, issues that we don’t consider like parchment paper. I discovered it in parchment paper. So there are some parchment papers which are fabricated from silicone and there’s some parchment papers which are fabricated from PFAS. And so they, a few of them typically they’ll inform you, however you bought to be trying to see which of them, and simply to form of assist out your folks proper now as a result of I do know that you simply’re going to ask me which of them are protected. If You Care, we examined that particular model, it’s the brown wrapper that appears form of recycled, that one we didn’t discover something in. One other Finnish firm, which known as Gifbera, after which one other one known as Katbite, which I feel is Korean, these are all obtainable on Amazon. So If You Care, Gifbera, Katbite, these we examined, and we didn’t discover something, however we did discover it in Reynolds. And we did discover it in Kirkland, so Costco. So these are meals packaging.
However right here’s like, numerous occasions if you’re going to get this in your meals packaging, it’s going to be extra of a difficulty of I went out to eat, or I’m utilizing one thing that’s processed. So the reply is the extra you’ll be able to prepare dinner from scratch at residence, the extra you’re going to have the ability to eliminate these contaminants with out even figuring out about it as a result of numerous occasions it has to do with the processing of the meals one way or the other, and the way these chemical substances, be in polymers or no matter, are entering into all the things. So the extra you’ll be able to prepare dinner by yourself…once more, I feel that’s in all probability one thing that you simply love to listen to, the extra you’ll be able to prepare dinner utilizing elements that about, the higher off you’re.
One other actually massive space is family mud. This isn’t one thing that you’d take into consideration. However , your mud is then analyzed. Your family mud has been analyzed at a lab, not yours particularly, however different folks’s. And it accommodates numerous fireplace retardants, phthalates, and PFAS. And that’s coming off of your electrical gear in your own home. So your tv in all probability has some PFAS within the wiring, possibly has it someplace. And when that plastic will get scorching, numerous these plastics have fireplace retardants and different varieties of issues inside them. Now, over time, and I imply, over years, because it will get scorching, they form of emit into the air, and these particles are extremely magnetized in the direction of mud. So that they stick with the mud they usually fall, proper?
So how do you get this out of your own home? I might say simply mud, I hate that reply however that’s actually the reply. The extra you mud, , the cleaner you retain your own home, the much less probably your youngsters are going to be uncovered to this. Now, I can’t cease them from like, , being on carpet in case you’ve outdated carpeting with PFAS on it, there’s nothing I can do for that different than simply vacuum a ton, , to get that stuff out of it, it’s going to break down over time and be launched. So vacuum as a lot as you’ll be able to, these varieties of issues. Get an air air purifier, a few of the finest air purifiers are on the market. Although I do know those that we suggest are in all probability additionally going to be pulling in PFAS as a result of in the event that they’re pulling within the mud, that’s the place it’s, proper? So that you wish to eliminate the mud.
Make-up and private care, this can be a actually troublesome situation. Earlier this yr, they did an investigation not me, however the precise scientists, proper? And they also checked out over 300 standard, principally standard make-up merchandise they usually discovered it overwhelmingly in make-up, give it some thought like this, stays longer, waterproof, what I’m saying? You need your make-up to remain in your face and never go anyplace and the extra we’ve demanded that the extra they put in PFAS. So that you wish to form of search for issues that don’t have any claims about long-lasting, don’t have any claims about being waterproof.
I might say we discovered about six or seven totally different manufacturers of make-up within the pure world that I didn’t discover, , any natural fluorine on the ranges we’re in search of. However most of even the pure magnificence merchandise, , make-up manufacturers, it’s like…like, I used to be taking a look at numerous issues, mascara and lip gloss so to talk as a result of I knew that these are like what everybody’s utilizing each day, proper, lip gloss, after which if it’s basis, it’s like next-level dedication, proper? So we simply went within the first go dedication, and in some manufacturers, we discovered it not of their mascara however discovered of their lip gloss or vice versa. So it was actually troublesome to form of be capable of say this model or that model as a result of we needed to do numerous testing to determine that out. So make-up I might say, and different than simply, , following me and what I’m testing there’s no different reply to make-up as a result of nobody’s placing that data on the market. Even the scientists who have been taking a look at it, they’re not likely like granting you the uncooked knowledge to have the ability to work out which one they examined however that’s why we did it.
One other factor is like water, look into your water. It is a actually massive deal as a result of when you reside by a army base otherwise you reside by an airport that is actually essential, army bases and airports have been utilizing firefighting foam to place out grease fires which have PFAS in them and it has seeped into the groundwater under and has contaminated numerous groundwater by these bases. So when you reside by an airport otherwise you reside by a army base, I might simply exit and get a water air purifier regardless, don’t even wait. As a result of the reply is it’s in all probability going to be there and it is probably not a sort of PFAS that we will acknowledge simply but. You understand, as a result of that’s the opposite drawback with water is, we aren’t as much as testing in any respect. So I might simply assume, , that that’s how I’m working proper now could be I’m simply assuming, despite the fact that our water system doesn’t have something in it, it’s like, yeah, you solely examined 16 of them, , there’s like 10,000 on the market, , that’s how I really feel like there’s an enormous gaping gap. So water, work on water.
Clothes is one other massive one, however the reply to clothes is we don’t know the reply behind dermal contact. So I’ve numerous advisors who work on this and a few of them are working behind the scenes to creating strategies for testing. A few of them, , they’re working at several types of phases in several types of methods with this chemical. However the one factor that all of them agreed on was we don’t know sufficient about dermal contact. We don’t know if one thing rubs up in opposition to your pores and skin, and it’s a PFAS chemical, will it get in? How will it get in? How a lot we’ll get in? We don’t know.
And since we don’t know, we will’t make any statements about that. So the reply is we don’t know. However the place are you going to search out it? Something that’s stain proof, keep away from issues which are stain proof, completely 100% as a result of that’s the place it’s going to be. It’s in numerous jackets waterproof. We did an investigation on jackets, so when you go to Mamavation…I want I might inform you each single one, but it surely’s very complicated on the market proper now to search out out what’s PFAS-free, after which what’s just a bit part of PFAS-free. A few of these corporations which are producing clothes, aren’t wanting on the massive chemical class. They’re solely taking a look at this over right here, they usually say, “We’re freed from PFC.,” however they’re forgetting all this different stuff over right here, .
And there’s some certifications like Bluesign, as an illustration. Bluesign licensed is a kind of certifications that can permit sure varieties of PFAS chemical substances within the certification and but they form of make a declare that they’re PFAS-free. So it’s complicated for the buyer and the rationale it’s complicated for the buyer is the scientists have simply form of gotten on the identical web page about the place this chemical is and what we’re going to think about as a part of the chemical. So I don’t wish to say it’s all the companies’ faults, I’m saying that they’re doing what’s within the regulation, , after they’re making these statements, however the statements are altering as a result of the science is altering. And because the science is altering typically the businesses are two, three years behind, , the mantra, the way it’s described. And so I’m operating into numerous that with jackets, like play couches, play modular couches, , something like that, that may have like a stain-proofing about it. So simply be searching for that.
Tents and out of doors gear. Oh, gosh, I can’t…my cousins in Norway are going to giggle at me, however there’s one model that we love a lot. And it’s bought a J in it, I’ll put it in your notes, your present notes. It’s like a Swedish identify and I can’t pronounce it as a result of I don’t communicate Swedish. And it’s bought a J in it and I’m gonna simply completely butcher it. However there’s numerous European manufacturers that as a substitute of utilizing PFAS, like on their tents, as an illustration, they use beeswax and paraffin proprietarily put collectively and it does a really comparable or just about the identical factor. These merchandise are extra expensive, , you’re not going to discover a low-cost tent that’s PFAS-free with, , extra pure…and I do know paraffin shouldn’t be pure, however like, , it’s higher than PFAS. These varieties of mixtures which are much less problematic to the setting in an affordable manner but, hopefully the longer term will change that.
Then additionally, , it’s in automotive wax and surfboard wax, these varieties of issues, and carpet and flooring. We did a bamboo investigation, we checked out a bunch of various bamboo floorings and we solely discovered one which didn’t have detections out of like eight or 9. So I’ve been desirous about this when it comes to what’s round us. You understand, when you’re going to be doing flooring, as an illustration, , we went after bamboo and we appeared particularly at bamboo as a result of why? I’m like, it’s inexpensive, it doesn’t dent, you’ll be able to stroll round together with your heels and so I used to be attempting to love, , resolve all the issues after which we did discover one model. However it’s troublesome. It’s actually troublesome to keep away from it, , grandstand overarching, eat out much less, mud extra, and prepare dinner from scratch as a lot as you’ll be able to. These are the three issues that I might say would in all probability do essentially the most bang on your buck and simply look out for locations who…like when you go to mamavation.com, we’ve accomplished an investigation on like numerous issues, not all the things but, however on numerous issues. And that’s the…I’m attempting to reply that query, the place is it, how do I keep away from it? And I’m form of going class by class to determine it out as a result of each class is admittedly sophisticated.
Katie: Yeah, that jogs my memory, within the labeling, like, we began…such as you stated, we’re seeing some which are labeled as “freed from” sure ones of those, but it surely jogs my memory of when BPA grew to become well-known, after which it was like BPA-free. However these all had BPS or BPAF or different ones, that are as problematic, the place we’re now discovering, in some circumstances, worse. And so simply because there are some that label now doesn’t essentially imply, such as you stated, that they’re protected.
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And I do know out of your web site, you’ve accomplished investigations into all of those several types of issues. And also you gave us a family overview simply now. However I might like to undergo some others which are particularly in all probability relevant to mothers. So I cringe to ask, however the first being, what about, like, athletic put on like yoga pants?
Leah: So yoga pants wasn’t as dangerous, truly. In order that was one of many higher ones. We examined about, I feel, 32 or 33, totally different yoga pants, athletic put on as a result of that was a query I had. I’m like yoga pants, what I imply? I put on them actually each day, it’s form of like my outfit, it must be like a uniform. And I do know each day, I’m sporting yoga pants, some shirt that’s actually snug, and my hair is in a very messy bun, I bought numerous hair, so this all goes up in a bun. So we checked out about 32 of them, we discovered 25% of these yoga pants had detectable fluorine within the crotch. Now, once I first began testing them, I used to be testing the knees, you’re not going to search out it within the knees. How do I do know? I examined to search out it. After which I assumed to myself, the place would I put it? And so I had the lab repeat a few them with the crotch, bam, that’s the place it was. So about 25%. Now, not one of the natural manufacturers, when you look in…not one of the natural manufacturers that we had examined, yeah, all of them had non-detect at 10 elements per million, so that’s protected.
We did a like a not our favourite, higher, and finest class of these 32. Those that we discovered detectable there within the high of the what we might not suggest, then there have been ones within the center, which have been artificial supplies so we didn’t discover something in them. So be happy to purchase them. After which for these of you who need the natural model that’s in one of the best on the very backside. Yeah, so we tried to form of divide it in three for everybody to have the ability to determine that out as properly. So this was not as dangerous, however you’ll discover it within the crotch, which might be…it may be comparable in different pants too if you consider it, prefer it’s going to be within the crotch. Now, I don’t know is the reply to that. I could sooner or later, possibly begin testing underwear and swimsuits and stuff like that, however when you…to find out about that, I don’t find out about these but as a result of I’ve been requested that query. So I’m simply going to inform you I don’t find out about some fits and underwear but. However interval underwear, I do know.
Katie: Properly, that’s encouraging that there are these good choices obtainable as a result of I used to be not going to be prepared to surrender my yoga pants. However that does result in different athletic put on. So let’s discuss sports activities bras after which, because you talked about it, additionally interval underwear.
Leah: Yeah, so sports activities bras are fairly problematic. We discovered…so your sports activities bra, there’s just like the outer a part of it after which there’s the inside half. So the inside half is that, like, form of pores and skin shade mesh that’s subsequent to your bra, which are subsequent to your breast. We discovered detections in 65% of sports activities bras in that mesh space. And once I advised my advisors about this, numerous them they have been pediatricians that have been, , serving to me evaluate this one particular one, they have been involved and extra of our advisors have been involved as a result of that is the mesh that’s proper up in opposition to your breasts. Now, right here’s the state of affairs I’m considering of as a result of this was my life and nonetheless might be my life. You understand, you’re a brand new mother, proper, and your child goes down for a nap, and so what do you do? You run off and also you do a exercise or one thing like that as finest as you’ll be able to and you’ve bought like 40 minutes to an hour, proper? So that you’re understanding, understanding, after which sweating up a storm and you bought your sports activities bra on after which, you hear the noise, proper, and also you’re like, “Shoot,” didn’t get the time, so that you didn’t have time for a bathe. So then you definitely run upstairs, you go get the newborn, and increase, breastfeed. That’s the state of affairs I’m apprehensive about.
So if you’re a breastfeeding mom, please watch out and have a look at my investigation for the not our favourite, higher, and finest. We discovered them in 65% of those merchandise, it was not all the things. It was exhausting due to the high-impact bras, there weren’t as many good high-impact bras, however considered one of them that I did discover that I feel individuals are going to be enthusiastic about is Goal. Goal has truly been doing numerous work on PFAS and textiles and you would inform as a result of once I examined in opposition to that, they got here out clear. So when you’re an enormous busted woman, which I’m, my women are fairly massive…When you’re an enormous busted woman you don’t need, like, black eyes whilst you’re understanding, proper, Goal’s a kind of manufacturers. It’s not natural, clearly, it’s stuffed with artificial polyester and yada, yada, yada, however we didn’t discover detectable PFAS within the sports activities bras there. So that they’re known as All In Movement or one thing like that, in order that was good. And typically I simply preserve testing till I discover one thing that I can put on, , and that was a kind of points the place I simply stored testing. That was sports activities bras. In order that’s one you wish to look on mamavation.com. When you go there, we’ve bought all the exams listed proper there on all of the manufacturers that we discovered.
Katie: What about interval underwear? That is once I personally don’t have any expertise with as a result of I’m an enormous fan of the menstrual cup as a substitute for the sustainability, which I do know interval underwear are as properly, however what did you discover when it got here to those?
Leah: It was fairly dangerous truly once we appeared into interval underwear, we had…I’m attempting to recollect what number of we examined, it was over 20. I feel we solely discovered six manufacturers with out detectable ranges. Yeah, solely six, and the toughest half the place there are some manufacturers that really market themselves as PFAS-free. I’m not gonna say which model it’s however you might have considered trying to have the ability to determine that out, you’ll go on their web site, and they’re going to present you scientific testing on how they will show that they’re PFAS-free. However it’s important to have my eyes to know what you’re taking a look at. You have a look at that scientific research, proper, that they despatched off to the lab, the detection stage is so much greater than mine. So I check at 10 elements per million. They have been testing at 50, so what I imply, like, I can’t make any statements about that. However I might say there’s some humorous enterprise happening in that.
And the issue is…I, , interviewed numerous the CEOs that had the safer interval underwear. And primarily what’s occurring is what they stated to me is you’ve lots of people on this trade that don’t actually have numerous expertise with textiles. Like, they don’t know so much about what they’re doing. They’re nice entrepreneurs, they’re nice, at numerous different issues, however they don’t actually know so much concerning the processing of textiles. And when you don’t know, you don’t know what to say, you don’t know what to ask, after which she was additionally telling me that, she’s like, you may get Oeko-Tex material, so to talk, and ship it to the producer, after which the producer will likely be like, “Oh, would you like waterproofing on that?” And so they know that when you put that on it destroys all the things, like all of the accreditations and all that stuff, however they provide it in any case. And so , when you’re somebody who doesn’t perceive the textile trade, you could fall into that class.
So what I discovered in interval underwear wasn’t ranges that appeared like…there was just a few manufacturers that had ranges that have been actually excessive, proper, I might be like, “Whoa.” However then there have been different manufacturers that had ranges that have been low. And so if you have a look at that, it appears like extra of a contamination situation than it appears like an deliberately added situation. However I don’t know what, , the distinction is when it’s proper up by your vagina. I simply don’t know, and no one is aware of. In order that’s why we have been in a position to do the classes we have been and I consider it was…it may be seven now as a result of we preserve testing. And we preserve including to that report, , every time we do discover one thing, and those who ship me interval underwear need me to check it, simply if you wish to do this I can check stuff, simply preserve it in its authentic packaging. I simply don’t need you contaminating it. However yeah, we’ve had neighborhood members purchase extra interval underwear that they need, they ship it off to me after which we simply go check it within the lab simply to ensure we all know out of all of the manufacturers that we will see. That’s not a great one.
Katie: Gotcha. I’ll be certain that we hyperlink to those as properly as a result of I do know you’ve written about all of those and folks can go search for the precise particulars. So for you guys listening, wellnessmama.fm can have all these hyperlinks. One other related one for mothers, what about ketchup? As a result of I do know for lots of youngsters, this can be a favourite so as to add to numerous stuff. So what about ketchup?
Leah: Ketchup was simply heartbreaking. Ketchup, the overwhelming majority of the ketchups that I examined, all had complete fluorine in it. Now, I needed to clarify to all people that I did complete fluorine exams on the overwhelming majority of those ketchup manufacturers. I didn’t do natural fluorine, however let me inform you form of what I’ve been doing. I’ve despatched about 350 issues off to the lab during the last 2 years, numerous testing. So that provides you an concept of how a lot testing I’ve accomplished. And I might say 80% of that testing, we’ve accomplished natural fluorine on. And once I first began, I did complete fluorine. So I wasn’t as savvy as I’m now to know concerning the distinction between the pure fluorine and the natural fluorine, which is artificial, and also you wanted to separate that. And so, , my scientific advisors got here in and helped me with that after which we began, so ketchup is an older one.
However we discovered a ton of complete fluorine in ketchup, besides for 2 manufacturers. We didn’t discover it in Heinz, and that shocked me. So I used to be like, right here’s the common Heinz within the glass bottle, nothing, within the plastic bottle, nothing, within the little ketchup packets, nothing. We didn’t discover it, , in any Heinz product. After which we didn’t discover it in 365 Complete Meals Natural Ketchup. So it made me suppose that that may be white-labeled, possibly white-labeled Heinz ketchup, have you learnt what I’m saying? However then each different ketchup that we examined, we discovered detectable ranges, and numerous them have been actually near 10. So it was like they have been proper there, proper?
So right here’s the reply to that, of all the issues that I’ve despatched off to the lab, they’ve been ready…they usually do complete fluorine on all the things, however then we run one other check and it’s a check for fluoride, proper? And what they do is that they search for fluoride after which they’re in a position to do a calculation to deduct the whole fluorine quantity from the fluoride quantity, and that’s natural fluorine, so that they do this calculation for you. I’ve by no means seen, not potential, however I’ve simply by no means seen fluoride, greater than two, possibly three elements per million. You understand, so numerous manufacturers will wish to say, in the event that they wish to say it’s complete fluorine, I’ve not discovered that, , fluoride to be an enormous factor and something, , I feel they wish to suppose that it’s but it surely’s within the stuff that I’ve examined, we’ve not. I did ship two of these manufacturers as a result of two manufacturers folks have been actually, actually…they actually needed to find out about.
And that was Primal and Annie’s. And I despatched Annie’s and Primal out for natural fluorine testing after we put this up, they usually have been just about the identical quantity. So I feel that we’re discovering numerous indications. That’s the one the place I’ve to say learn it, however perceive the testing isn’t full. And I do plan on updating that exact investigation, including extra manufacturers, and doing the entire shebang, it’s simply in all probability not going to be till subsequent yr someday, proper? And I wish to give these manufacturers a while to work on it. So I do know numerous them do find out about my testing and whether or not…I don’t know in the event that they’re making any strikes, as a result of they haven’t come to me and stated they’re making any strikes. In order that’s unlucky, however I’ll say in different manufacturers…or different industries, there’s manufacturers making some fairly hefty strikes right here.
Katie: So, to be continued, and I’ll put hyperlinks to the present ones so folks can have these as a place to begin. And I do know that there’s extra to return in different classes as properly. So folks can keep updated with you to maintain a watch out for that. It additionally makes me curious if it’s potential to get folks examined for these compounds. And I additionally surprise like, is there even a…when you’re going to weigh the chance and advantages, is it even value doing? We don’t know find out how to get them out of the physique and we all know it’s good to keep away from them. Like, is it value testing if it’s even potential? Or is it higher simply to know they’re dangerous and keep away from them?
Leah: So I want I might have accomplished that once I didn’t end that query for you. I’ve a check downstairs, there’s a model new check that got here out. I feel it’s known as Empower FX. So I’m going to need to double verify on that. However there’s a model new check the place you’ll be able to prick your finger and ship it to a lab. Now, this can be a massive big deal as a result of it’s not costly and it’s obtainable to all people. So let me offer you some background. So I needed to do a physique burden, , scientific research. And I had numerous scientists concerned and we form of talked about it. And what we realized was, it was near unattainable to do that as a result of your physique doesn’t launch it. So, , it’s not like with polyphenols and, , you wait per week later and also you simply don’t eat them or put them into your physique, they’ll be much less. That’s not the case of PFAS. So it’s actually exhausting to check in your physique, actually, actually troublesome to do these comparisons, so we ended up not doing it.
At that time, we have been wanting right into a lab that was about $1,000 a check. Oh, yeah, loopy. So I’ll inform you my pleasure when I discovered a model who’s doing this for $250. And also you’re doing it at residence. What we have been going to look into was sending folks to a draw lab after which sending it off to a lab in Canada. And prefer it was all of this, , strategic, loopy stuff that we needed to do. However now there’s a firm, and I wish to say Empower FX, and we’ll hyperlink that down under. However they partnered with Eurofins and Eurofins is a humongous $6 billion lab around the globe. So it’s a very…that’s an amazing partnership. And so Eurofins is the associate on this they usually’re producing these little check kits. So you’ll be able to check your self, it’s a bit drip of blood, ship it off, and I consider they’re testing for between 16 to 30 totally different PFAS, however the most typical ones that you simply’re going to search out in water.
Katie: Good to know, I’ll put hyperlinks to that as properly if it’s in your web site, or I’ll get that information from you for people who find themselves…
Leah: It’s not but.
Katie: Okay.
Leah: You’ve bought it first.
Katie: How thrilling. And as I anticipated, our time, after all, flew by as a result of we all the time have such enjoyable conversations.
Leah: How has it been 45 minutes? Oh my gosh.
Katie: So we’ll simply need to do extra rounds of this as increasingly investigations come out. However simply on the finish, I like to ask if there’s any parting recommendation you wish to give to our listeners right this moment, might be associated to this or one thing completely unrelated to all of the mothers listening?
Leah: Oh, , when it comes to these items, I might say don’t sweat the small stuff, proper? I imply, I’ve been doing toxic-free for seven years now, possibly eight. And that’s one of many issues that I’ve discovered, , I wish to know what absolutely the worst issues are and I’ll keep away from these. And all the different issues, I’ll based mostly on my emotional wants at that second, proper? And so, when it comes to like, if you’re desirous about issues, don’t freak out about one thing you utilize as soon as a month, proper? What you wish to have a look at are the large dailies, proper, every day exposures. So don’t sweat the small stuff when it comes to, , don’t freak out over some factor that you simply’re going to be consuming, , or ingesting as soon as a month. So go off to your good friend’s home, eat the pizza, and drink, and the cake and, , take pleasure in your self. As a result of the stress you could placed on folks based mostly on being afraid of all these items, I feel, could be worse on you general than I feel the precise chemical substances themselves and that’s what I’ve discovered over time.
And so defend your area, defend your soul, so to talk, from being too afraid. I feel that there’s a distinction between having a wholesome concern of one thing that’s harmful, what I’m saying, and avoiding that since you’re sensible. And in addition entering into the world of it’d being like a disordered considering course of, , the disordered considering means of all the things is poisonous shouldn’t be a great place so that you can be. I would like you to take pleasure in your life. And , comply with folks like Katie and I for, , directions on what to do after which simply let it go. You understand, that’s my recommendation is, , management what you bought within the residence, exit and discover the world and luxuriate in your self, and take a look at to not let your craziness sink into different locations is my finest recommendation.
After which simply, , attempt to keep abreast of this, however , that is a kind of points the place individuals are not likely contacting their elected officers about this. And I do know there’s lots of people particularly in like Republican districts and stuff like that, they’re not listening to sufficient from you, as a result of they might be doing extra in the event that they heard from you. And I actually really feel like for lots of ladies who’re residing in Republic, congressional districts and stuff like that, name them, allow them to know you’re involved about this. Allow them to know that you simply care, and also you care about them, have you learnt what I’m saying? When you’re voting for them, and that is your situation, ensure that they know that that is essential to them. As a result of I used to work for elected officers a few years in the past and I’ll say that when the ladies begin calling up, and after they begin pushing and honking on the doorways, they bought their little strollers and stuff, you’re in hassle. It’s the senior residents and the mothers and also you don’t wish to piss off both of these teams. However , that is simply one thing that your elected officers want to listen to extra from you on as a result of there’s numerous states and once I say so much, I imply numerous states proper now which are contemplating like 200 items of laws on PFAS. They should hear from you.
Katie: Yeah, I’ve stated that so many occasions on this podcast that mothers are such a power of nature and that widespread coverage occurs when the common mother adjustments her thoughts and will get concerned and that’s on so many various ranges. And I’ve seen it on an area stage. Really, the place I used to reside, it was attention-grabbing, on this state, homebirth was technically not authorized for some time, and a bunch of mothers I do know lobbied and bought it modified. However I feel it doesn’t need to be…I feel we frequently don’t do it as a result of we expect it must be this big quantity, this big groundswell, it truly doesn’t as a result of I additionally used to web page for representatives and it doesn’t take that many calls and letters earlier than they concentrate. So I might say don’t underestimate…particularly on stuff like this that pertains to our youngsters, don’t underestimate your energy to vary that. And in addition to echo your different recommendation, be careful for what you’ll be able to but in addition understand the physique is good and adaptable and designed to heal and keep away from the worst of the worst, however don’t let it rule your life or develop into traumatic. And that applies to meals, that applies to what we work together with in our every day lives, and provides your self some grace on the finish of the day too.
Leah: Love you, woman. You’re so nice at summarizing my level.
Katie: Proper again at you, and thanks for the time right this moment. It’s all the time, after all, so enjoyable to get to talk with you. Like I stated, we’ll do it once more as increasingly information turns into obtainable. However thanks for being right here.
Leah: After all. It’s my pleasure. Thanks for having me, Katie.
Katie: And thanks, as all the time, to all of you for listening and sharing your Most worthy assets, your time, your vitality and your consideration with us right this moment. We’re each so grateful that you simply did and I hope that you’ll be a part of me once more on the subsequent episode of “The Wellness Mama Podcast.”
When you’re having fun with these interviews, would you please take two minutes to depart a ranking or evaluate on iTunes for me? Doing this helps extra folks to search out the podcast, which implies much more mothers and households may gain advantage from the data. I actually respect your time, and thanks as all the time for listening.
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